Saytymyzdyng avtory, belgili sayasatker ÁMIRJAN QOSANOV ózi jii súhbat beretini ras. Biraq ol kisining ózining bireuden súhbat alghanyn kórmeppiz. Sol dәstýrin búzyp, Ábekeng bizge myna súhbatyn joldapty.

Osy joly ol tanymal jurnalist, belgili qogham qayratkeri, Atyrau qalasynda shyghatyn memleketaralyq «Altyn ghasyr» gazetining redaktory, tarihshy JÚMABAY DOSPANOVPEN (surette) óte bir qyzyq әri manyzdy taqyryp tónireginde әngimelesken eken.  

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- Júmeke! Qazaq ýshin bir ýlken enbek siniripsiz - «Ekinshi dýniyejýzilik soghystaghy qazaq ofiyserleri» atty ótken jyly jaryq kórgen 10 tomdyq kitabynyzdy ekinshi basylymgha 25 tom etip dayyndaudy ayaqtapsyz, qúttyqtaymyn! Tura Tәuelsizdikting 25 jyldyghyna arnalghan 25 tom bolyp túr ghoy!

Siz – ghalym, ne kәsiby әsker sapyndaghy qyzmetker emessiz. Tútas bir ghylymiy-zertteu instituty atqarugha tiyis júmysty bir óziniz jasap tastadynyz! Osy talabynyzgha ne týrtki boldy?

- Qay isting de sebep-saldary bolady. Otan aldyndaghy әskery boryshymdy Mongholiyada Ulan-Bator qalasynda ornalasqan 39-jalpyәskerlik armiya shtabynyng erekshe bóliminde ótedim. Qatardaghy jauynger bola túra, agha leytenanttyng lauazymyn atqardym, sonyng jarty ailyghyn alyp túrdym.

Eshqashan úmytpaymyn, 1971-jyldyng 8-shildesinde KSRO Ministrler Kenesining Tóraghasy Aleksey Kosygin keldi. Delegasiya mýsheleri (ishinde Qazaqstan Ýkimetining basshysy B. Áshimov bar) armiyamyzdyng shtabynda boldy. Mongholiyanyng birinshi túlghasy Yu.Sedenbalmen birge Aleksey Nikolaevich qolyn berip menimen amandasty da, birneshe súraq qoydy. Men sekildi qatardaghy jauynger ýshin búl erekshe este qalar jayt edi.

Osy kezdesuden keyin bir apta ótken song ana delegasiyadan bólek Mongholiyanyng Batyry ataghy beriluine baylanysty Sovet Odaghynyng Batyry, aviasiya marshaly V.A.Sudes te Ulan-Batorgha jete qaldy. Shtabtaghy kezdesu kezinde ol maghan nazar audaryp, kim ekenimdi súrady. Gurievten ekenimdi estigeninde onyng qap-qara qalyng qastary qozghalyp ketti. Ekeu-ara tildesuimizdi sol kýiinde jetkizeyin.

-Postoy soldat, pos-to-oy! Ty govorishi, chto iz Gurieva? U menya voeval odin komandir aviaeskadrilii, mayor-kazah iz Gurieva. Kak je ego familiya?.. Vot pamyati... Da, pochty tridsati let proshel, kak on pogiyb...

Men әskery tәrtippen taq ete qaldym:

-Tovarish marshal, razreshiyte mne!

-Razreshaiy.

-Idrisov Ermuhan?!

 -Tak tochno, on!!! Da, Idrisov! Spasibo, tebe. Ty, dorogoy, staneshi nastoyashim patriotom Rodiny y svoego kazahskogo naroda. Kazahy silinyy narod, ocheni horosho voevali. Idrisov - esly by ne pogib v sorok tretiem, voynu zakonchil by edinstvennym komandirom aviapolka sredy kazahov.

Osy kýnderi ókinetinim, әtteng sol kezde qazaq jigiti, aviasiya general-mayory Mýdәris (Hamza) Zaysanovtyng 27 jasynda, 1939-jyly-aq aviasiya polkynyng komandiyri,  1942-jyly Mongholiya Áskeriy-әue kýshterining túnghysh qolbasshysy bolghanyn bilmegenim. Zaysanov -  Yu.Sedenbalmen birge «Jauyngerlik Qyzyl Tu» ordenimen marapattalghan. Sudes - Zaysanovty tanuy mýmkin, biraq onyng qazaq ekenin bilmegen tәrizdi.

Aytpay kete almaymyn, 1971-jyldyng shilde-tamyz ailarynda Qazaq KSR-ining halyq artiysi, Memlekettik syilyqtyng iyegeri, auyldasym Núrmúhan Jantórin bir mezgilde «Mosfilim» men Sverdlovsk kinostudiyasynyng eki filimine týsuge Mongholiyagha kelip, armiya shtabynda qabyldauda bolghanynda, onyn: «Sonda qalay, bauyrym, myna armiyannyng alapat muzeyinen bir qazaq ofiyserin kóre almadym. Úly Otan soghysynda ofiyser qazaqtar tym az bolghany ma? Nege biz olardyng sany men sapasyn bilmeymiz? Osy mәselemen nege eshkim ainalyspaydy?» dep, renishin menimen bóliskeninde ne aitarymdy bilmedim. Balalyqtan jana shyqqan 19-da ghanamyn ghoy, kómeyime tas tyghylyp, ýnsiz qaldym.

Qazaq maydanger-ofiyserlerding sanynyn, esimderining jariyalauyn 1975-jyldan bastap talmastan úzaq kýttim. Jenis kýnin erekshelep atap ótetin merekeli besjyldyqtar jana estelik medalidarymen ótip jatty, biraq men oilaghan mәsele qozghalmady.

2005-jyldyng bas jaghynda QR Qorghanys ministrligining polkovniygi telejurnalist qyzdyng súraghyna Úly Otan soghysyna 500-den kem emes qazaq ofiyserler qatysqanyn, olardy әli eshkim anyqtamaghanyn aitty. Taghy 5 jyl kýttim. Jenisting 65 jyldyghyna da ofiyserlerimiz turaly jinaq jaryq kórmedi.

Sodan, 2010-jyldyng qyrkýieginde ol kitapty óz betimshe dayyndaugha kirisip kettim. Resmy materialdardan Ekinshi dýniyejýzilik soghysqa 600 myng qazaq býkil Kenes Odaghy boyynsha qatysqanyn oqyghan edim, qara esepke salghanda 300 jauyngerden joq degende 1 ofiyser shyghuy tiyis, yaghny kitabyma 2000 ofiyserden kem enbeuin bastapqy maqsat ettim.

-Byltyrghy 10 tomdyghynyzgha 8,5 myng adamdy engizseniz, myna 25 tomynyzda - 12 myng adam. Búl ózi Ekinshi dýniyejýzilik soghysqa qazaqtardyng qatysuy turaly tyng derek qoy! Búl sannyng týp negizi qayda jatyr?

 -Men әlsin-әli baspaly, elektrondy BAQ-qa habarlandyrular beruimen qatar, jariyalanghan materialdardy qadaghalap otyrdym. Qajetti maydangarderding kem degende 85 payyzyn RF Qorghanys ministrligining «Podvig naroda» men «Memorial» portaldarynan taptym. 2011-jyldyng qantarynan 2016-jyldyng qyrkýiegi aralyghynda osy portaldardan 18 milliongha tarta adamdy sýzip shyqtym. Bir aigha 264-265 myng adamnan keledi.

Tylsym kýsh degen ghajap qoy, otyz shaqty adam – sol arqyly tabyldy.

Senesiz be, senbeysiz be, bilmeymin, biraq shynymdy aitayyn: óli jandardyng ózderi shyqty. Qalay bolghanyn solardyng bireuin mysal etip keltireyin.

Týngi eki jarymda, týsime, basyn tandyrghan jaraly mayor enip, orys tilinde: «Ya – kazah, Minus!..» dedi de, joq boldy. Dereu kompiuterimdi qosyp, Minus degen esimdi izdedim. Tabylmady. Erterektegi qazaqtar bala shetiney berse – ómirge endi kelgenine qazaqqa kelmeytin basqasha at qoyady, «ministerstvo yustisiy degendi qysqartyp qoyghan shyghar» oida bolghanmyn. Arada eki kýn ótkende ol qaytadan kórinip, búl joly: «Familiya - Minius, imya - Shaymerden, ya iz Kyzylordy, pogib v sorok pyatom» dep tolyq aitty. Esh qinalmay, sol boyda taptym. Polk komandiyrin, komissaryn, komandirding sayasy orynbasary qyzmetin atqarghan, 4 ordenmen (ekeui «Jauyngerlik Qyzyl Tu») marapattalghan, shynynda da 1945-jyldyng 12-nauryzynda Vengriyada qaza tapqan. Reseyding Altay ólkesinde dýniyege kelgen Mujikbaev Yakov Vasilievich, Kutaybergin Mihail Sergeevich, Abbakir Petr Aleksandrovich, Bulubaev Aleksandr Ivanovich, tәjikstandyqtar: Abrambaev, Alimbetov, Komratovtar da, qalghan 20 ofiyser de, júmbaq kýide ózderi, meni tauyp alghan...

-Osy 12 myng ofiyserding qanshasy Qazaqstanda jәne onyng syrtynda dýniyege kelgen?

 -10,5 myny – Qazaqstanda, qalghandary syrtynda. Eng kóbi: ishki aimaqtar arasynda – Batys Qazaqstan oblysy – 1 myng adam, syrtqy memleketterden Resey Federasiyasy alda – 1077 qazaq ofiyser.

- Ofiyserlik korpustyng sapalyq qúramy she?

-  Qazaqtan tek soghys jyldary shyqqany men oghan tikeley qatysqany - 267 agha ofiyser (3 general-mayor, 9 polkovniyk, 30 podpolkovniyk, 225 mayor) - bar ofiyserimizding 1,32 payyzy. Ortalyq Aziyadaghy 6 últ: ózbek, qyrghyz, týrikmen, tәjik, qaraqalpaq, úighyrlardykin qosyp eseptegende bizdikinen 4 ese kem – 3 myngha jeter-jetpes.

Qandastarymyz bataliondardy basqaruda erekshe tanyldy. Oghan myna kórsetkishter dәlel. Batalion komandiyri – 177, batalion komissary (1942-jyldyng qazanynda joyylghan batalion komandiyrimen teng lauazym) – 84. Osy uaqytqa deyin qazaqtan 20 shaqty ghana batalion komandiyri shyqqany jazylyp kelgen edi.

1941-jyldyng shildesinde ol lauazymgha taghayyndalghan Bauyrjan Momyshúly – 16-shy, al, Sovet Odaghynyng Batyry ataghymen 1945-jyldyng aqpanynda bataliondy basqarugha alghan Saghadat Núrmaghambetov – 171-shi bolyp túr. Baukeng tirisinde osy tizimdi kórse, balasha quanar edi...

Polk komandiyri – 16, polk komissary – 10. Brigada basshylyghynda: komandir – 1, әskery komissar – 3, komandirding sayasy orynbasary – 2,  sayasy bólim bastyghy – 7, komandirding saptyq orynbasary – 5, әskery tribunalynyng tóraghasy – 1, әskery prokurory – 1. Diviziya basshylyghynda: komandir – 2,  әskery komissar – 3, komandirding sayasy orynbasary – 1, sayasy bólim bastyghy – 2, komandirding saptyq orynbasary – 2, әskery tribunaldyng tóraghasy – 1, әskery prokuror – 1. «SMERSh» qarsy barlaudyng polk, brigada, diviziya, korpus shtabtary jandaryndaghy  jedel ókilettileri – 59.

Ekinshi dýniyejýzilik soghysta 87 qazaq ofiyseri úshqysh bolghan. Búghan deyin ofiyser-úshqyshtarymyzdyng 10 shaqtysyn ghana bilip, atap kelgenbiz.

Qazaq halqynyng 20 ofiyser qyzy maydanda erlermen birdey jauapty mindetterdi abyroymen atqardy, esimderin tanytty. 

-Qazaqtan shyqqan  ofiyserlerding bizge әzirshe beymәlim erlikteri turaly da qolda bar derekterge sýienip aityp berseniz.

1942-jyldyng jeltoqsanynda qaza bolghan 1-tank brigadasy qúramyndaghy T-34 tankter rotasynyng komandiyri, agha leytenant Júmash Rahmetovting ekipajy sol jyldyng tek shildesi men jeltoqsany aralyghynda jaudyng 4 tankisin, 15 zenbiregin, 36 DZOTyn, 6 minometin, 19 pulemetin joyyp, 300-ge tarta jauyngeri men ofiyserin óltirgen.     

Stalingrad qalasyndaghy 102.0 biyiktik – Mamay qorghanyn fashister 1942-jyldyng 27-qyrkýieginde iyelenip alghan-dy. Qalany baqylauda óte manyzdy sanalatyn ol biyiktikte jaudyng almasyp túratyn myng adamy - jenil zenbirekterimen, minometterimen, tórt jaqqa iri kalibrli pulemetteri ornatylghan DZOT-tarymen 62-armiyanyng әskerlerin 3,5 ay boyyna ýlken shyghyngha qaldyryp, jogharygha jolatpay qoyghan. Sol biyiktikti 1943-jyldyng 9-qantarynda 284-atqyshtar diviziyasy 1045-atqyshtar polky qúramyndaghy 2-atqyshtar bataliony (komandiyri 26 jastaghy qazaq jigiti - leytenant Shamshit Qabdonasov) birinshi bolyp basyp aldy.

1944-jyldyng 26-mausymynda 19-gvardiyalyq tank brigadasynyng tank komandiyri leytenant Qasym Sәrsembaevtyng ekipajy qarsylastyng 1 tankisin, әskery jýk tiyegen 16 avtomashinasyn, 40 arbasyn, 1 tankke qarsy zenbiregin, 5 pulemetin qiratyp, 80-ge tarta avtomatshylaryn ajal qúshtyrdy. Búnyng bәri - bir kýn ishinde.

Astrahannyng qazaghy, 4 ordenning iyegeri, tank komandiyri leytenant Iliyas Bektemisov ekipajymen 1944-jyldyng 1-shildesinen 1945-jyldyng 1-nauryzy aralyghynda, yaghny 8 ay ishinde jaudyng 13 zenbiregin, 1 «Ferdinand» ózdiginen jýretin auyr artilleriya qondyrghysyn, 22 pulemetin, 6 minometin, 8 avtomashinasyn, әskery jaraq tiyelgen 16 arba-shanasyn talqandap, 185 gitlershildi o dýniyelik etedi.

SU-76 komandiyri leytenant Janghaly Berqaliyev 1944-jyldyng 21-qarashasynan 1945-jyldyng 10-nauryzyna deyin, 3,5 ay ishinde auyr jaralanyp saptan shyqqanynsha - nemisterding 1 «Tigr» auyr tankisin, 1 «Ferdinand» ózdiginen jýretin auyr artilleriya qondyrghysyn, 4 orta tankisin, 12 zenbiregin, 16 pulemetin, 8 jýk avtomashinasyn qiratyp, 100-ge tarta jayau әskerin joyady. Ol da 4 ordenmen marapattalghan.

1942-jyldyng 18-mamyrynan 1943-jyldyng 26-qantary aralyghynda 116-atqyshtar diviziyasynyng 441-atqyshtar polky qúramyndaghy pulemet rotasynyng komandiyri agha leytenant Sapar Oralbekov bir ózi 750-ge tarta fashisti ólim qúshtyrghan, osy uaqytta onyng rotasy 1700 jaudy joyghan, yaghny jaugha keltirilgen myna zor shyghynnyng 44 payyzy sonyng jeke ýlesinde.

Úly Otan soghysynda Qyzyl Armiyanyng 10 pulemetshisi 130-dan artyq qarsylasty joyghan. Birinshi orynda sheshen jigit Hanpasha Nuradilov – 920 adam, 2-shi orynda - bizding Oralbekov (750), 3-5-shi túrghandar S.Pugaev (350), A.Jejerya (343), V.Chemodurov (311). Oralbekovten ózgesine týgelimen Kenes Odaghynyng Batyry ataghy berilgen.

Búl kórsetkishti dәleldeytin qújattar da qolymda.

Polk komandiyri mayor Emeliyanovtyng – agha leytenant Oralbekovti ordenge úsynghandaghy qoly qoyylghan, móri basylghan marapattau betshesi qolymda, ólgen 750 nemis kórsetilgen.

Mende Ekinshi dýniyejýzilik soghystaghy kenestik jauygerlerding týrli joghary kórsetkishteri bar. Mysaly, qyzylordalyq kishi serjant Tayymbet Kómekbaev jayau әskerdegi atqysh-jauyngerler arasynda 103 jaudy óltirip, jәne 12-sin tútqyngha alyp, 9-shy bolyp túr. Taghy bir qyzylordalyq minomet vzvodynyng komandiyri, leytenant Dýisenbay Shynybekov 1944-jyldyng shildesinde qaza tapqanynsha tek snayperlik vintovkasymen 172 qarsylasty mәngilikke jer jastandyrghan...

37 ofiyser Kenes Odaghynyng Batyry atandy. Olardyng ishinde Talghat Biygeldinov búl joghary ataqty eki mәrte iyelense, 1945-jyldyng aqpanynda Kenes Odaghynyng Batyry atanghan S.Núrmaghambetovting bataliony 14-sәuirden 3 mamyrgha deyin qaruly 1245 qarsylasty óltirip, 2217-sin tútqyndaydy, 36 pulemetti joyyp, 3 tank pen sonshama ózdiginen jýretin artilleriya qondyrghysyn qiratady. Berlin irgesi men ishindegi úrystardy sheber jýrgizgeni jәne jeke eren erligi ýshin sol jyldyng 8-mamyrynda osy ataqqa ekinshi ret úsynylady, biraq berilmeydi.

Soghysta jәne 33 qazaq ofiyser Kenes Odaghynyng Batyry ataghyna úsynylghanmen ala almaghan. Olardyng ishinde atqyshtar rotasynyng komandiyri Qabysh Kóktaev 1944-jyldyng 12-tamyzynda, sosyn ekinshi ret 1945-jyldyng 4-aqpanynda úsynylghanda, ornyna Lenin jәne «Jauyngerlik Qyzyl Tu» ordenderi beriledi.

- Tәuelsiz Qazaqstannyng túnghysh Qorghanys ministri, armiya generaly S.Núrmaghambetov soghysta 20 jasynda batalion komandiyri, osy jasynda mayor bolghan birden-bir qazaq pa?

- 20 jasynda podpolkovnik atqaratyn lauazymda bolghandar 5 batalion komandiyri: Tólekeev Kapiyat (1942), Syrghabaev Qasym (1943), Qonyrbaev Oraz (1943), Ospanov Qaby (1944), Núrmaghambetov Saghadat (1945). Tólekeev 21 jasynda (1943) polk komandiyrining sap boyynsha orynbasary bolghan, eki apta jaraly polk komandiyrining mindetin atqarghan.

20 jasynda mayor shenin alghandar: Tólekeev K. (1943 aqpany), Syrghabaev Q. (1944 aqpany), Núrmaghambetov S. (1945 aqpany). 

- Ghajap eken. Búl bes adamnyng aty-jónin elimizdegi ofiyserler dayyndaytyn oqu oryndarynyng kórnekti jerine jazyp, suretterimen ilip qong kerek.

- Ámirjan, úsynysynyz óte oryndy. Mektepterdegi bastapqy әskery dayyndyq pәnine de qosqandy jón sanaymyn.

- On tomdyghynyz ótken jyly Atyraudaghy «Aghatay» baspasynda jaryq kórdi. Oghan memlekettik túrghyda qoldau kórsetilmegenin de bilemin. Al, endi búrynghydan kólemi 2,5 ese kóp, Qazaq eli ýshin asa qajetti, zor manyzy bar,  tayauda ghana jazyp bitirgen 25 tomdyq kitabynyzdyng basyluy sheshilgen be?

- «Aghatay» baspasynyng diyrektory, belgili qalamger Qoyshyghúl Jylqyshiyev qarajat tabugha júmystanuda, jaqynda Astanagha baryp keldi. «Aqsha jaghy qiyndap ketti, kórermiz» dep shala ýmittendirushilerden ondy nәtiyje bolar-bolmasyn bilmeymin. Reseyding eki aimaghyndaghy qazaq qandy azamattar biylghy kóktemde Qazaqstan Ýkimeti qoldamaghan jaghdayda ózderi shaghyn taralymmen shygharugha ynta bildirgen...

- Aldynghy 10 tom da osal emes, 8 mynnan astam qandas maydanger-ofiyserlerimizdi engizdiniz. Sonyng nәtiyjesi qanday, kitap shyqqaly bir jarym jyldan asty ghoy, ózi. Mektepten bastap arnayy orta, joghary oqu oryndary týgel aldy ma? Áskery oqu oryndary men bólimsheleri she? Tiyisti memlekettik organdar osy kitapty taratugha atsalysty ma? Patriottyq tәrbiyede erekshe oryny bar, bir emes, birneshe ghasyr boyy úrpaqtarymyz paydalanatyn qoldaghy, qiyndyqpen jinaqtalghan tarihy múranyng qadyr-qasiyetin bilip, sony halyqqa jetkizuge múryndyq boldy ma, Júmeke?

- Túsaukeser senator Sәrsenbay Ensegenovting arqasynda Astanada joghary dengeyde ótti. Ol bir ay búryn Atyrauda menimen arnayy kezdesip, túsaukeserdi parlamenttik dengeyde ótkizuge úsynys jasaghan. Oghan Parlamentting qos palatasynan 13 deputat, ministrlikter ókilderi, ghalymdar, әskeriyler qatysty, 120 oryndyq zalgha 30 kursant syimay qaldy.  Parlament deputattary Q.Súltanov, S.Ensegenov, solardyng qataryndaghy qos general-leytenant B.Ertaev pen A.Tasbolatov, Berlindi alghan atqyshtar vzvodynyng komandiyri, «Jauyngerlik Qyzyl Tu» ordenining iyegeri, 92 jastaghy Qaden Bekenov, t.b. sóz sóiledi. Ensegenov myrza mening búl kitapty 4,5 jyl dayyndauymda memleketten esh qarjy almastan, onyng 30-40 millionday tengesining qazynada qaluyna jaghday tughyzghanymdy minbeden qadap túryp aitty.

Byltyrghy qyrkýiekte Qorghanys ministri Imanghaly Tasmaghambetov ýiime rizashylyq hatyn jiberdi.

Elimizde Otangha degen sýiispenshiliktin, ony qorghaushylargha qúrmetting memlekettik túrghyda patriottyq tәrbiyening joqqa jaqyndap qalghany janyma batady. Birde-bir әkim ózdikterinen kitapqa súranys jasamady. Bilim salasynda da solay. Eshkim meni auditoriyalyq kezdesu ótkizuge shaqyrghan joq. Mektepter men kolledjderde bastapqy әskery dayyndyq pәni bar. Áskery qarudy shashyp tastap, qayta jinaudy terroristerding balalary da biledi, Otansyz olargha patriottyq tәlim-tәrbiyening qajeti joq.

- Qyzyq eken! Amalsyz bir salystyru jasayynshy. Siz eki kitapty bes jyldan astam uaqyt tapjylmay otyryp, kóz mayyn tauysyp jazdynyz. Qanshama uaqyt, qyruar enbek! Al sol siyaqty tórt jylda bir ótetin Olimpiada jýldegerlerine 250 myng dollardan bastap, syiaqy berilip jatady! Sonda búl ýkimet kitap shygharugha bólinetin qarjyny eseptegende Siz jazghan osynday, ensiklopediyalyq sipattaghy, әrbir mekteptin, kitaphananyn, әrbir maydangerding úrpaghynyng ýiining tórinde túrugha layyq kitapqa qajet qarjyny qarastyrmaghany ma?! Kerek bolsa, búl kitaptyng qalamaqysy da boluy kerek qoy!

-IYә, ol kitapqa memleket tarapynan qoldau bolmaghasyn, sol kezdegi oblys әkimi Baqtyqoja Izmúhambetovting demeushiler izdeuine tura keldi. Osy joly qalay sheshiletinin bir Alla biledi...

Úly Abay aitqan: «Sen de bir kirpish dýniyege, ketigin tap ta, bar, qalan», memleketimdegi bir ketikti bitegenime, Otanyma, halqyma qajetti isti tyndyrghasyn marqayyp jýrmin...

 -Ángimenizge rahmet!

Súhbattasqan Ámirjan QOSANOV

Almaty-Atyrau-Almaty,  13 qazan 2016 jyl

abai.kz