– Juyrda ghana Qyrghyz-Qytay shekarasynda tosyn oqigha oryn alyp, qyrghyz shekarashylary 11 lankesti atyp óltirdi. Osy oqigha men «Arqankergen» oqighasynyng arasynan úqsastyqtar kórmeysiz be?

– Eki oqigha da shekarada oryn aldy degeni bolmasa, basqa eshqanday úqsastyq kórip otyrghan joqpyn. Qyrghyzstanda qaruly top Qytaydan beri qaray ótkisi kelgen jerde qúryqtalyp, joyyldy. Arqankergende kil qazaqtyng arasynda qorlyq pen kótenzorlyqty kórgen Chelah jyndanyp, zastavany qyryp tastady.

– Qyrghyzdar shekarada bolghan oqighany otandastarynan jasyrghan joq. Shekarashylardyng «beril» degen búiryghyna lankesterding «Allahu әkbar» dep oq boratqanyn resmy týrde mәlimdedi. Al, bizde Qazaqstanda bәri kerisinshe. Bizding biylik oryn alghan oqighalardy mýmkindiginshe halyqtan jasyrugha tyrysady. Mәselen, 2009 jyly Aqtau týrmesinde jatqan 21 tútqyn qashyp shyghyp, qolgha týsetin bolghan son, aqyrynda óz-ózderin jaryp jiberdi. Jәne olar da jarylar aldynda «Allahu әkbar» dep aighay salghan. Osyny mәlimdegen Manghystau oblystyq ishki ister departamentining sol kezdegi baspasóz hatshysy qyzmetinen bosatyldy. Múnday faktiler jetip-artylady. Biylikting búl qadamy qoghamdy túraqsyzdandyrady dep oilamaysyz ba?

– Búl aityp otyrghandarynyz bizge jetken aqparat qana. Osynyng syrtynda búdan da zor shyndyqtar jasyrylyp jatqany belgili. Mysaly, Siriyagha ketken jýzdegen qazaq azamattary turaly aqparat osydan bir jarym jyl búryn belgili bolghan. Jaqynda ghana Aqmola oblysynda býtin bir auyldy jaylaghan úiqy-auru turaly aqparat kem degende ýsh ay búryn belgili boldy. Búnday sayasattyng sebebi bir: elimizdegi biylikting avtoritarly boluynda, kenestik qalyptan shygha almauynda. Avtoritarly biylik qoghamdy ghana qamap tastamaydy, ózi de qamalady. Bayaghyda Saltykov-Shedrin osyghan úqsas Resey biyligi turaly «búl biylik óz halqyn ýnemi tang qaldyryp otyruy kerek, әitpese biyliginen airylady» degen eken. Bizdiki de sol. Barlyghynan asyp týstik, qyrdyq-joydyq, ozdyq-astyq, ghajap-keremet, tamasha-tamasha degenge halyqty әbden ýiretip alghan son, óz ótirigine ózi senip qalghandyqtan, kez-kelgen tosyn oqighany biylik ózine qauip retinde qarastyrady. Kóptegen jaghdayda osynday «ýndemes» sayasaty biylikting jelkesinen shyghyp jatady. Janaghy Chelahtyng isin kópshilikting әli de san-saqqa jýgirtip jatqany da sondyqtan. Shynayy aqparat aitqan kýnning ózinde de oghan halyq senbeytin jaghdaygha jettik.

– Býginde «Katev» qory jetekshilik etetin týrik liyseyleri kóptegen memleketterde júmys istep túr. Jәne týrik liyseylerining artynda «núrshyldyq», «sýleymenshildik», «gýlenshildik» túrghanyn eshkim joqqa shyghara almaydy. Al, múnday liyseyler Qazaqstanda jetedi. Ony bitirgender qatary Qazaqstan biyligine aralasa bastady. Siz osylardan qauip kórmeysiz be?

– Mening oiymsha, qazaq-týrik liyseyleri men joghary oqu oryndary Qazaqstandaghy eng sapaly bilim oshaqtary. Al, osynyng syrtyndaghy teris ýrdisterdi qogham, baspasóz, arnayy organdar zerttep, olardyng keng óris almauyna jol bermegeni dúrys.Islamdyq baghyttaghy aghymdargha kelsek, býgingi kýni Qazaq últyna, memleketine eng ýlken qauip tóndirip otyrghandary – uahabiyler men salafshylar. Olardyng da ókilderi biylikke aralasyp jatyr. Telearnalar men baspasóz qúraldaryndaghy jurnalisterdi kóptep óz jaghyna tartyp, qoghamdyq pikirge әser etip jatyr. Dәl býgin aitatyn bolsaq, osyny aitu kerek. Jalpy alghanda, Qazaqstandaghy barlyq sheteldik, mәdeniyetimiz ben egemendigimizge jau, jat jamaghattardyng barlyghyna «sau bol» dep elden ysyryp tastaytyn uaqyt keldi. Qazaqstanda aldaghy uaqytta bir ghana barshagha ortaq, QMDB-gha qaraytyn belsendi jamaghat qalyptastyru túrghysynda qyruar enbektenu qajet. Mening týsinigimde, búl jamaghatty barsha el ishindegi týrki-músylmandardy biriktire alatyn «Alashiya jamaghaty» dep atap, onyng ruhani, teologiyalyq, filosofiyalyq, qúqyqtyq negizderin jasaqtap shyghu kerek. Bizding biylik, Din isteri agenttigi, QMDB bastaryn býgin osyghan auyrtuy kerek. Ekinshi bir mәsele, QMDB Qazaq jeri men qazaq diasporasyn ózining «kanondyq jauapkershiligining aimaghy, ayasy» dep tanyp, barsha qazaq pen barsha Qazaqstan músylmandaryna qatysty ruhaniy-teologiyalyq jauapkershilikti óz moynyna alghany dúrys. Tipti qajet bolsa qazaqtar qalyng otyrghan shet memlekettegi moldalardy elge shaqyrtyp, oqytyp, olardy el, últ mýddesine júmys istetkizu kerek. Búl, ainalyp kelgende, qazaq kóshin qayta jandandyrudyng kóptegen kezek kýttirmes mәselelerining biri.

– Qazaqstandaghy iydeologiyanyng tizginin býginde әnshiler men diktorlar ústap otyr. Osynyng zardaby qalay bolmaq?

– Diktorlar da, әnshiler de kóbinese basqalar jazyp bergendi oqityn nemese aitatyn adamdar. Al, qoghamnyng astarynda asa ýlken qúndylyghy, manyzy joq, teledidardaghy tәrbiye-tәlimi joq hihiy-qaqagha telmirip otyrghany barshagha ayan. Búny ýlken problema dep aitar edim. Telearnalarda shynshyl, shynayy talqylanar mýldem eshtene qalmady. Búghan kinәli biylik. Sebebi býgingi biylikke el bolashaghy turaly tereng oilanatyn, biylikke únamaytyn súraqtardy qoya biletin úrpaq pen qoghamnyng qajeti joq. Al, jegenine, ottaghanyna mәz bolyp, ishkenine masayrap, ekining birine qarqyldap kýlip otyrghan qoghamdy basqaru onay.

– Ukrainadaghy dýrbelenge qatysty... Ondaghy kóterilgen halyq Euroodaqqa ótu talabymen birge elde demokratiyalyq qaghidalardyng saqtaluyn talap etuge kóshti. Búl halyqtyng demokratiya jolyna úmtyluy ma, әlde syrtqy kýshterding әseri me? Demokratiyalyq prinsipter jolynda halyq tynyshtyghynan airylyp, berekesin qashyryp alghan joq pa? Bizding elimiz ýshin búdan qanday sabaqtar alugha bolady?

– Eshbir syrtqy kýsh bir millionnan astam adamdy kóshege shyghara almaydy. Búl ukrain halqynyng óz eline, últyna degen jauapkershilikti óz moynyna alyp, el isine aralasa bastaghanyn kórsetedi. Ukrainadan bizding ýirenerimiz mol. Eger tarata berse, búl asa úzaq әngimege ainalady. Negizgi sabaqtary mynau: Ukraina kenestik qalyptan shyghyp, otarsyzdanudy belsendi jýrgizip jatyr. Osy eldegi әrbir adamnyng qúny artyp, onyng sayasattaghy róli artyp keledi. Ukrainada sayasy monopoliya joyyldy. Sayasy monopoliyanyng joyyluy bolashaqta eldegi barlyq kýshterdi mәmilege keltirip, barlyghyn halyqpen birigip sheshuge mәjbýrleydi. Milliondaghan adam ózin elding qojayyny sezinip, óz elining bolashaghyna degen jauapkershiligin týsine bastady. Búnyng barlyghy ainalyp kelgende elding shynayy demokratiyagha qol jetkizuine jeteleydi.

– Bizdegi jastardyng sayasy belsendiligin qalay baghalaysyz? Kóbine JOO-da pikirsayys ortalyqtaryn qúryp, sol jerde ghana sóz bәsekesin qyzdyrumen shektelip jatqan joq pa? Partiyalardyng jastar qanaty qanshalyq belsendi júmys jýrgizip jatyr dep oilaysyz? Tipti, jastardyng basym kópshiligi elding sayasi-ekonomikalyq jaghdayyna aralasudan góri, kóp jaghdayda oiyn-sauyq pen telejobalargha әuestenip ketken joq pa?

– Jaqsy bolsyn, jaman bolsyn, býgin keremet buyn ósip keledi. Búlar- Tәuelsizdik úrpaghy. Ózin qazaqpyn dep esepteytin, qazaq últynyng bolashaghyn oilaghan әrbir azamat osy buynnyng jolyn ashu, osylargha dúrys bilim beru, sanasyn ulatqyzbau, kózine shel bastyrmau túrghysynda enbektenui tiyis. Qajet bolsa osy buynnyng jolyna topyraq bop tóseluimiz kerek. Eng bastysy, býgingi qazaq jastarynyng boyynda kenestik-imperlik ýreyler men komplekster az. Ókinishtisi mynau: býgingi bilim beru jýiesi azamattardy emes, lәbbayshyl qyzmetkerlerdi, qúltemirlerdi әzirlep jatyr. Uniyversiytet studentterdi «preziydentshil», «núrotanshyl» etu túrghysynda emes, elding oily-arly patrioty, bolashaqtaghy el ómiri men jeke ómirindegi problemalardy ashyq aita alatyn, kóre alatyn, solardy sheshe alatyn azamat qylyp tәrbiyelep shygharuy tiyis. Qazaq studentteri sapaly bilim aludan búryn, dayyn jauaptar aludan búryn ynghaysyz, qiyn súraqtar qoidy ýirenui tiyis. Professorlar, rektorlar olar ýshin «qúday» bolmauy kerek. Pedagog degen o basta «balagha ilesip jýrushi» degendi bildiretin. Ejelgi grekterde pedagog degeniniz bay-shonjarlar jaldap alatyn «qúldar» bolatyn. Ata-ananyng «qúly» emes, balanyng «qúly».Olar balagha ne kerek, balanyng kónilin qalay tabu kerek, oqytylyp jatqan bilimdi qalay týsinikti etemin dep júmys isteytin adamdar. Al, býgingining múghalimderi balanyng da, ata-ananyng da «qúly» emes, memleketting de qúly emes, aghymdaghy biylik pen biyleushi partiyanyng «qúldary», qaghaz ben esepting «qúldary», saylau men nauqannyng «qúldary». Osynday «nagruzkagha» shydap, balalardy da oqytugha kýsh pen jigerdi tauyp jýrgen múghalimderge qayran qalam! Shyn aitam!

– Elimizdegi azamattyq qogham belsendiligi tek Almaty qalasynda erekshe bayqalady. Ózge ónirlerdegi azamattardyng sayasy belsendiligining tómendigin nemen baylanystyrasyz?

– Búl pikirinizben kelisu qiyn... Býgin tek Almaty men Astana ghana emes, basqa da ónirlerdegi qazaq jastary oyana bastady. Jer-jerde últshyl, memleketshil jastar birigip keledi. Búl shynayy azamattyq qoghamnyng payda bolyp kele jatqanynyng nyshany.

– Jalpy, sizding pikirinizshe sayasy taqyryptardy qamtuda qazaqtildi jurnalisterding qarymy qanday? Qanday kemshilikter men erekshelikter bayqaysyz?

– Bizde shynayy sayasy jurnalistka әli de jetilgen joq. Sebebi biylik túrghysynan búghan súranys joq. Súranys tek biylikti ólgenshe maqtaugha, sapasyz ýgit-nasihatqa negizdelgen. Eger tyng ózgerister bolsa, olar qoghamdy birte-birte jaulap kele jatqan internet salasynan shyghyp, dәstýrli baspasózge de enui yqtimal dep oilaymyn. Búl qazaqtildi ne orystildi dep bóletin mәsele emes. Barsha jurnalistikagha qatysty dýniye.

– Uaqyt bólip, súhbattasqanynyzgha rahmet!

Súhbattasqan Erbol TÚRYMBET,
SKIFNEWS.KZ.