-  Estigen bolarsyz, qazirgi kezde jergilikti yasauiyshilerding jetekshisi Ismatulla maqsym jәne onyng birneshe izbasarlaryna qatysty sot isi jýrip jatyr. Qazir osy taqyryp BAQ-tar men internette qyzu talqylanuda. Jalpy islam jәne sopylyq boyynsha maman retinde aitynyzshy, sopylardy qudalaudyng sebepteri qanday?

-  Estigen bolarsyz, qazirgi kezde jergilikti yasauiyshilerding jetekshisi Ismatulla maqsym jәne onyng birneshe izbasarlaryna qatysty sot isi jýrip jatyr. Qazir osy taqyryp BAQ-tar men internette qyzu talqylanuda. Jalpy islam jәne sopylyq boyynsha maman retinde aitynyzshy, sopylardy qudalaudyng sebepteri qanday?

- Qazaqstanda sopylar men «vahhabitterdin» teketiresinde songhylary basymdyqqa ie bolyp túr. Men búrynyraqta aitqanymday jәne qazirgi jaghdaydy biluimshe, «vahhabitterdi» óte yqpaldy adamdar, sonymen qatar qúqyq qorghau organdary men keybir BAQ ókilderi qoldap otyr. Búl jaghdayda, әriyne, qarjylyq mýdde jәne resurstar da ýlken rólge ie (búl orayda tanymal fransuz maqalyn ózgertip, «Shershe la'rjan» - «Aqshany izdenizder» dep aitar edim). Qalyptasqan jaghdayda tergeu de, sonday-aq saraptama da obektivti bolmaydy-au dep qauiptenem. Múndaghy basty problema - tútqyndalghan sopylardyng materialdaryna teologiyalyq bagha beretin sarapshy kim bolmaq? Mening qorqatynym, olar dәl osy sopylyqqa, onyng jergilikti formalaryna, әsirese, Yasauy jolyn ústaytyn jariya zikirge jәne t.s.s. qarsy shyghyp jýrgen teologtar boluy mýmkin. Odan da beter qauiptenetinim, taghayyndalghan sarapshylar biliksiz bolyp, sopylargha qatysty «dinnen bezgender», «ekstremister» jәne t.s.s. jalghan aiyptardy taghugha tyrysuy mýmkin. Búl ýnemi paydalanylatyn aiyptar emes pe? Biraq, búl arada jogharyda aitqanymday, sopylargha degen óshpendilikting shyn (býrkemelengen) sebebin týsinudi negizgi nazarda ústau kerek.

Sopylyq ghúryptargha qatysty aita keteyin. Qazaqstanda sopylyqtyng (biz ony kórip otyrghan keyingi tarihy qalpynda bolsa da) negizgi teologiyalyq jәne ghúryptyq dәstýrlerining bir bóligi janghyrghanyn aita ketken jón. Biraq, qaytalap aitamyn, qarsylastaryna yasauiya bauyrlastyghy ústanatyn dәstýrding eng negizgileri únamaydy. Naqtyraq aitsaq, olar yasauiyshilderding konformistik pozisiyany saqtauyn, zayyrly jәne ruhany biylikting bólinuin jaqtauyn, músylman halyqtardyng últtyq jәne mәdeny erekshelikterin oryndy dep sanauyn jәne t.s.s. ústanymdaryn keshirmeydi. Sopylardyng búl ústanymdary, pighyldary  «vahhabitterge» jaqpaytynyn qaytalap aitqym keledi. Múnday qarama-qarsylyq býgin payda bolghan joq, búl teologiyalyq talas pen ózara kelispeushilikting myng jyldan astam uaqyt boyy jalghasyp kele jatqan kórinisi.

Sonymen qatar, múnday ústasudyng ózeginde «vahhabitterdin» ruhany jәne әleumettik bәsekelestikten qauiptenui de jatqanyn úmytugha bolmaydy. Áriyne, myqty resurstyq baza men keybir yqpaldy adamdardyng jasyryn qoldauynsyz tabysqa jete almaytyn «vahhabitter» ýshin sopylar (qazaq mәdeniyeti, men dәstýrine, islamnyng jergilikti jәne dәstýrli ómir sýru formalaryna jaqyn qúbylys retinde) әjeptәuir bәsekeles sanalady.

- Óziniz әriptesinizben birigip jaryqqa shygharghan «Jariya zikir jәne samany negizdeytin pәtualar jinaghy» atty kitaptyng alghysózinde diny ómirden sopylyqty yghystyru búl salanyng radikaldanuyna әkeledi, jәne ol bos kenistikti fundamentalist jamaghattar toltyruy mýmkin ekenin kórsetken bolatynsyz. Al endi býgingi kýnning jaghdayynda osy prosesting qanday zardaptary boluy mýmkin?

- Men jenildetilgen shemalar men anyqtamalardy onsha únatpaymyn, sebebi biz aityp otyrghan qúbylys óte kýrdeli. Degenmen búl jaghdayda ózimning anyqtamamdy qarapayym tilmen jetkizip kóreyin. Mening aitayyn degenim, Qazaqstanda sopylardyng jenilis tabuy qazaqtyng tarihy dәstýri men mәdeniyetine eleuli soqqy bolmaq. Al qazirgi jaghdayda bosap qalghan «dini-iydeologiyalyq alandy» aq niyetti kýshter men qúrylymdar basady dep oilamaymyn. Mening oiymsha, múnyng Qazaqstan ýshin sayasi, mәdeny jәne әleumettik saldary óte auyr bolady. Múny týsinetin uaqyt jetti! Men Siz eske salyp otyrghan kitaptyng alghysózinde aitqan oiymdy qaytalaymyn. Diny jaghdaydy, naqty aitqanda, diny úiymdardyng qyzmetin basqaru óneri qanday da bir úiymdy sotqa tartudan túrmaydy. Búlay etu mәseleni ushyqtyra týspek. Búl ýderisterdi basqarudyng ózge joldaryn tabu manyzdy. «Resmi» sanalatyn diny úiymdardy syrttay qadaghalap qoyyp, diny úiymdardyng basqa formalaryn «boldyrmau» әreketi syrtqy talapqa beyimdelgen, biraq astyrtyn júmys isteytin jana diny úiymdardyng payda bolmauyna kepildik bere almaydy. Endeshe sopylar siyaqty dәstýrli, eng bastysy, konformistik jәne sayasatqa enjar, iykemdelgish úiymdarmen júmys istegen jaqsyraq emes pe?

Qaytalap aitam, búl qarapayym, jenildetilgen shema, al qalyptasqan dini-iydeologiyalyq ýderister óz aldyna asa kýrdeli. Onyng ýstine, eldegi ahualgha nemqúrayly qaramaytyn Qazaqstannyng sheteldik strategiyalyq әriptesterining óz mýddelerin astyrtyn engizui de jaghdaydy qiyndata týsedi. Áriyne, búl proseske mýddeli shet elderding enui jariya týrde bolmaydy, jogharyda aityp ótkenimdey, qarjy-korporasiyalyq «basyp kiru» formasynda, qalyptasqan jemqorlyq shemany nemese basqa da formalardy paydalanu arqyly iske asady. Ókinishke oray, búl «enuler» men «basyp kiruler» әrqashan jariya bola bermeydi, qogham aldynda ashyq aitylmaydy. Biraq búlardyng jaghdaydy túraqsyzdandyru túrghysynda oqys saldary boluy yqtimal. Sondyqtan búl prosesster jauapkershilikti jәne saraptamalyq әdisterdi qoldanudy talap etedi.

- Sopylyqtyng ornyn «Músylman bauyrlar» tәrizdi radikaldy úiymdar basqan elderding mysalyn keltire alasyz ba?

- Men atalghan kitabymda jetkilikti mysaldar keltirgen bolatynmyn. Óz zamanynda Egiypet ýkimeti (ótken ghasyrdyng 50-60 jj.) sopylyq úiymdarmen osy siyaqty kýres bastaghan bolatyn. Búl kezde keybir fundamentalister ýkimette, diny qúrylymdarda, tipti armiyada yqpaldy boldy. Olar «sopylar vesternizasiya men modernizasiyany qabyldamady» degen jeleumen sopy tariqattaryna (úiymdary) qarsy kýres úiymdastyra aldy. Sopylargha qarsy sot jýrip, olardyng medreseleri jabyla bastady. Onyng ýstine sottar men tergeu organdary jalghan aiyptar taqty. Ol kezde sopylardyng qarsylastary myqty resurstargha ie bolyp, sot jәne tergeu oryndarynda yqpaly kýshti boldy. Bir sózben aitqanda, Egiypette sopylardy janshu aldymen ruhani, sodan keyin әleumettik jәne sayasy salada olardyng ornyn fundamentalisterding partiyalary men qozghalystarynyng basuyna әkep soqtyrdy. Endigi jerde fundamentalisterding músylmandardyng modernizasiya men vesternizasiyagha úshyrauyna qarsy úrandary ýstemdik aldy. Fundamentalister nasihat resurstaryna ashyq týrde ie bolysymen-aq, ózderining tabighy bolmysyna say, agressiya men terrorizmge úrynyp, sol arqyly memleketpen úzaqqa sozylghan qaqtyghystyng negizin qalady. Osyghan úqsas jaghday ózindik erekshelikterimen keybir arab elderinde, Pәkistanda qaytalandy.

Biraq, mynany da eskeriniz. Býgingi kýni «Músylman bauyrlar» ghana eng qauipti úiym sanalmaydy. Olardyng qazirgi yqpaly aitarlyqtay myqty emes. Degenmen, qazir Egiypette jaghday kýrdeli jәne olardyng qysqa merzimdi qayta órleui oryn aluy mýmkin. Biraq, qazirgi fundamentalister men radikaldar әldeqayda jaqsy úiymdasqan, key jaghdayda shetelderding arnayy qyzmetining qúpiya qoldauyna sýienedi. Olardyng ýlken resurstary jәne úzaq merzimdik, alysqa ketetin josparlary bar.

- Qazaqstandaghy qazirgi sopylyq formalary «hanafiya» (hanafizm) diniy-qúqyqtyq mektebine sәikes kele me? Ismatulla maqsym bauyrlastyghyn aityp otyrmyn. Sebebi, bizdegi «resmy dinbasylar» jariya zikir hanafy mazhabyna sәikes emes deydi. Tipti olar óziniz aldynghy súqbatynyzda toqtalghanynyzday, jariya zikirshilerge qarsy arnayy pәtua da shyghardy. Óz kitabynyzda siz búl pәtua salafiylik negizde dayyndalghan dep aitqan ediniz. Jәne olar internetten alynghanyn kórsetkensiz. Osy pәtuagha arnayy toqtalyp kete alasyz ba?

- Men sopylyqqa qarsy jasalyp jatqan shabuyldardyng mәnisin tolyq týsinemin. Áriyne, sizding «resmy dinbasylarynyz» (óziniz ataghanday) sopylardy ruhany bәsekeles sanaydy. Din iyeleri ózderine tiyesili jamaghattyng basqa ruhany kóshbasshygha «ketip jatqanyna» әrdayym qyzghanyshpen qaraghan, qazir de solay. Búrynghy zamandardaghy siyaqty, shәkirtterding yqylasy jolyndaghy kýreste jenilis tapqandar qazir de ózderining ruhany bәsekelesterining abyroyyn týsiruge tyrysyp, olardy «diny sauatsyz», «dәstýrli mektepten alshaqtady» degen siyaqty aiyptaulargha jýginedi.

Ary qaray, sopylyqtyng «jariya zikir» (Qúdaydy dauystap madaqtau nemese dayyn formulalardy qaytalau) dәstýri sunniylikke nemese hanafy mashabyna sәikes kelmeydi degendi estigen kezde, men «jariyashylardyn», jalpy sopylardyng qarsylastary islamdy jamylghan keybir ortaghasyrlyq puristerding (býgingi salafiyler nemese fundamentalister sekildi) búrynnan tanys uәjderin qoldanatynyn kóremin. Sopylyqtyng «dúrys» jәne «dúrys emes» formalary men ghúryptary turaly talastyng islamda payda bolghanyna shamamen on eki ghasyr boldy (!). Yaghni, búl tartys basty eki basty mektep: tayfuriya/bistamiya (negizin qalaushy Ábu Yazid Bistami, 875 j. qaytys bolghan) jәne diny ghúryptargha qatalyraq qaraytyn junaydiya mektebi («sahv»/suyq oilau; negizin qalaushy әl-Junayd әl Hazzaz әl Baghdati, 910 j. qaytys bolghan) payda bolghannan beri bar. Men óz kitabymda búl ghasyrlargha sozylghan tartysta kimdiki dúrys, kimdiki búrys dep anyqtaudyng esh mәni joq ekenin aityp ketkenmin. Búl sopylyq ghúryptarynyng әrtýrli formalary (islam ayasyndaghy tylsym-filosofiyalyq aghym!) sunnizmning ózinde qalyptasqan әr aluandyq tәrizdi tabighy nәrse ekenin týsinu manyzdy. Sunizmdegi ghúryptyq, tipti diny әr aluandyq jәne osyghan úqsas sunniylik dindarlary arasyndaghy «islamdyq jalghyz dúrys forma» turaly san ghasyrlyq tartys belgili bir mazhab ókilderin músylman emes deytin uәjge negiz bolady dep eshkim aitpaydy. Sopylyqtyng kelbeti onyng qanday etnomәdeny ortada payda bolghanyna, sol aimaqta qanday mazhabtyng pozisiyasy kýshti bolghanyna tikeley baylanysty qalyptasty. Endi býgingi jariya zikirge qarsy shyghatyndar qanday uәj keltiredi, eng bastysy, ol uәj kimderden alynghan, soghan toqtalayyqshy. Ádette, jariya zikir men sopylyqqa qarsy 3-4 tanymal dindәrdyng esimi atalady. Biraq, sol dindәrlardyng ózining týbin qaza bastasan, olar hanbalittik nemese salafiylik avtorlar bolyp shyghady. Osy jerde «hanafiylik dәstýrden alshaqtady» degen aiyp qalay tuyp otyr degen tabighy súraq ózinen-ózi payda bolady. Ortaghasyrlyq dindәrlar óz tartystarynda ózderine jaqyn sopylyq formalary men ghúryptary turaly ghana aitqan bolatyn. Biraq olar óz qarsylastaryn «mazhabtan (tipti islamnan) shygharu» mәselesin eshqashan kótergen emes. Tipti, «islamdy tazartudyn» qoldaushysy Ibn Taymiyanyng ózi jariya zikir jaqtaushylaryn synaghanmen, olardy «mazhabtan shygharu» mәselesin kótermegen. Degenmen, keyin shyqqan tanymal din ghúlamalary (mysalgha, Úbaydúllah әl-Búhari) jariya zikirding zandylyghyn dәleldegen uәjderin keltirdi. Ádildik ýshin jariya zikirge qarsy shyqqan hanafiylik nemese shafiylik dindarlar jәne sopylar da bolghanyn aita ketu kerek. Biraq olardyng uәjderin sol diniy-qúqyqtyq mektepting basqa bedeldi din ghúlamalary qayta teriske shygharyp otyrdy jәne olar jariya zikirdi zandastyrdy. Qaytalap aitam, búl tartys kóp ghasyrgha sozylghan. Osy aimaqtaghy keybir sopylar jәne dindәrlar (mysalgha, Alauaddin Ustrushani, Qoja Naqshband, onyng shәkirti Qoja Múhammed Parsa) jariya zikirding dúrystyghyn jәne zandylyghyn moyyndaghanmen, ózderi qúpiya zikirdi artyq kórgeni taghy bar. Kórip túrghanymyzday, sopylyq, onyng ghúryptyq formalary (zikir) turaly dindәrlar ortasynda (sonyng ishinde hanafiyler ishinde de) әrtýrli kózqaras bolghan.

Al jariya zikirdin, sonymen birge sopylyqtyng qazirgi qarsylastarynyng uәjderi janadan oilap tabylghan dýnie emes. Tek ózining alghan bilimine (kóp jaghdayda «taza arab/pәkistandyq») qatysty olar sopylyqqa, әsirese, jariya zikirge qarsylastardyng pozisiyasyn talqandaytyn bedeldi dindәrlardyng negizdi pikirleri bar ekeni turaly aitpay (nemese ony bilmey), tek «ózderinin» (naqty aitqanda, bóten) kózqarasataryna qatysty uәjderi men pikirlerdi jinaqtaugha tyrysady. Degenmen, men aityp ketkendey, búl jerde aldynghy oryngha «din tazalyghy» emes, jamaghat jinau ýshin kýres shyghady.

Sopylyqtyng yasauiylik formasy (dәl osy jariya zikirmen birge) qazirgi Qazaqstannyng territoriyasynda payda boldy. Eger siz Yasauy ilimin ózinizdegi ruhany múralardyng bir bóligi dep moyyndasanyz, onda dinde payda bolghan qazirgi fundamentalister men ekstremisterden alynghan salafiylik kózqaras túrghysynan kelip, búl múragha til tiygizuding qajeti joq. Búl túrghyda, ózining Qoja Ahmet Yasauy kesenesine barghan kezekti bir sapary (ziyaraty) barysynda (11 nauryz 2011 jyly) úly sheyhtyng múrasy qazaq halqynyng jәne aimaqtaghy barlyq halyqtardyng ruhany múrasynyng bóligi dep mәlimdegen sizderding preziydentteriniz Núrsúltan Ábishúly Nazarbaevpen kelisemin. Asyl sózder!

Endi sóz bolghan pәtua turaly. Baghymyzgha qaray, mәtindegi uәjderining әlsiz jәne mýldem hanafiylik emes ekenin ózderi de týsinip, ony kóbeytken joq, keng taratqan joq. Búl pәtuada dәleldeme retinde paydalanylghan shygharmalar hanbalittik nemese salafiylik avtorlardyki. Olay bolsa, pәtuanyng ózi hanafiylik ruhta emes. Ary qaray tarqatyp jatu artyq bolar dep oilaymyn.

- Ortalyq Aziya elderindegi diny basqarmalardyng diny jәne teologiyalyq túrghydan kәsiby dengeyin qalay baghalaysyz? Búrynghy uaqytta, bolishevikter kelmesten búryn Ortalyq Aziya diny túlghalardy dayyndaytyn ortalyq boldy emes pe? Týrkistan, Sayram, Búharadaghy medreselerding ózi nege túrady? Al qazir diny oqu ortalyqtary Egiypet, Pәkistan jәne basqa arab elderine auysty. Nelikten?

- Rasynda da, bolishevikterding jenisine deyin Ortalyq Aziya diny oi-pikirding asa tanymal ortalyqtarynyng biri boldy, әri soghan sәikes oqytu jýiesi de bolghan. Kenes zamanynda aimaqtaghy oqytu dәstýri ýzildi. Tek 1945 jyldan bastap júmys istegen Búharadaghy jalghyz medrese qaldy. KSRO-nyng ydyrauy aldynda jәne tәuelsizdikting alghashqy jyldarynda islamgha qayta oralu ýderisi bayqalghan kezde, aimaqtyng tәuelsiz elderinde kadr jәne ózderining kýshimen oqytu mәselesi kýn tәrtibine qoyyldy. Sol kezde eyforiya qanatynda jәne diny bilim beru jýiesin qalpyna keltiru niyetimen músylman elderining oqu ortalyqtaryna jýzdegen jas jetkinshekterdi jiberse nemese ol jerden oqytushylardy shaqyrtsa bolghany, búl mәsele ózdiginen sheshiletin siyaqty kórindi. Biraq, diny jaghdaydy retteytin organdardyng nazarynan eki mәsele tys qaldy: 1) Kóp jaghdayda sóz jýzinde erikti bolyp sanalghanymen, shyn mәnisinde belgili bir qozghalystyng (kóp jaghdayda salafiylik) jәne diniy-sayasy toptardyng mýshesi bolyp shyghatyn shaqyrylghan oqytushylardyng pozisiyasy qanday? 2) diny ortalyqtarda jas balalardy qalay jәne ne maqsatta oqytady, sol jastargha fundamentalisterding yqpaly qanday bolady?

Sonymen, teologiyalyq dayyndyq dengeyi, eng bastysy, bilim sapasy oqu ornynyng oqytushylar qúramyna baylanysty. Yaghni, olar bilimdi qay jerde jәne kimderden alghan? Búl problemalardy elemeu bóten dәstýrde bilim alghan, tipti islamnyng jergilikti ómir sýru formasyna, mәdeny jәne últtyq dәstýrlerge ýzildi-kesildi qarsy jastar tobynyng payda boluyna әkelip soqty. Jogharyda aityp ótken sebepterge baylanysty, jana oqytushylar men jana dayyndalghan dindәrlar jergilikti dәstýrlerdi islamdyq emes dep tanydy. Jogharyda atalghan kitapta Shymkent meshitterining keybir imamdarymen súhbattasqanym turaly birneshe mysal keltirgen bolatynmyn. Dәl solar (Pәkistandaghy «Deoband» jýiesindegi medrese týlekteri) Qoja Ahmet Yasauy kesenesin «bulidozermen tegisteu» kerektigin úsynghan, sol siyaqty ózara qarama-qarsy «músylman» jәne «músylman emes» eki últ qana bolady degen tújyrymdy jariya etti. Onyng ýstine olardyng sipattaghan «músylman emester» qataryna, mening týsingenimshe, sopylar ghana emes, qazaq halqynyng kóp bóligi kiredi. Sondyqtan qorytyndyny óziniz jasanyz...

Men sizding súraghynyzdan kishkene auytqiyn. Biraq búl oryndy auytqu bolmaq. Jaqynda maghan Kavkaz, Qazaqstan jәne Qyrghyzstan «jamaghattarynyn» materialdarymen tanysugha tura keldi. Olardy maghan sol elderdegi әriptesterim kórsetti. Osy tәrizdi «jamaghattar» materialdarymen Ózbekstan boyynsha da júmys istegenmin jәne istep kelemin. Meni bәrinen búryn myna jaghday qyzyqtyrdy. Birinshiden, aty atalghan barlyq aimaqtar men elderdegi qújattardaghy, «jamaghattyn» jasyryn basylymdaryndaghy úrandardyng sóz saptauy birdey formada ekenin, yaghny olardyng iydeologiyalyq bastauy bir ekenin bayqadym. Mamandar ýshin olardyng derekkózi belgili - fundamentalistik (salafiylik) әdebiyet. Men búl arada «ghalamdyq jospar» turaly aitpay-aq qoyayyn, biraq múnyng halyqaralyq mәndegi qúbylys ekeni anyq.

Ekinshiden, tútqyndalghan (keyde kózderi joyylghan) jamaghat mýshelerinen alynghan әdebiyetting shamamen 75-80%-y - kóp jaghdayda resmy týrde jaryq kórgen diny kitaptar. Kóbisi audarmalar. Mysalgha men orys, qazaq, qyrghyz jәne ózbek tilderine audarylghan fundamentalistik әdebiyetterdi kórdim (basylghan jerleri: Kavkaz qalalary, Qazan, Shymkent, Almaty, Bishkek, Osh jәne t.b.), olardyng keybirine arab elderinde de tiym salynghan. Syrttay qaraghanda, búlar atalghan elderde (sonyng ishinde Qazaqstan da bar) zandy týrde basylyp shyghatyn «qatardaghy dini» әdebiyet ekenin, biraq mýldem kәsiby saraptama jasalmaghanyn aitugha tura keledi. Basugha rúqsat beru kezinde búl әdebiyetterding shyghu tegi, tәjiriybesiz jastargha tiygizetin jaghymsyz yqpaly jәne t.b. eskerilmeydi. Al ol kitaptardyng «jamaghat» mýsheleri tarapynan qalay qabyldanghany boyalyp, belgilengen jerlerinen bayqaugha bolady. Búl «taza islam», «dúrys emes músylmandar», keybir músylmandardy da qamtityn «dinsizdermen kýres», «kýreske qatyspaushylar» jәne ashyq agressiya turaly ýzildi-kesildi tújyrymdalghan mәtin ýzindileri. Ýshinshiden, «jamaghat» mýshelerining orta jәne jogharghy buyndarynyng barlyghy derlik Pәkistanda medrese tәmәmdaghan nemese óz elderinde bilim alghan. Biraq, búl medreselerde sabaq bergen ústazdar sol Pәkistannan, keybir arab elderinen oqyp kelgender. Sondyqtan baqylausyz jaryq kórip jatqan diny әdebiyetter, bizding diny oqu oryndarynda oqudyng formasy men әdisterin dúrys baghalay almauymyz jәne t.b. jaghdaylar arqyly bizding jastardy qalay jәne neni oqytyp jatqanymyzgha qatysty býgingi kýni bizde naqty jauap joq. Osynday jaghdayda ózimizding islamnyng dәstýrli formalary men diny bilim alu baghdarlamalaryn qoldauymyz jaqsy emes pe? Sóz orayyna qaray aita ketsek, sopylar kóp jaghdayda sonday bilim men iydeologiyanyng tasymaldaushylary bolyp sanalady.

- Ózinizding bolashaqtaghy ghylymy josparlarynyz turaly aityp berinizshi?

- Qazirgi josparlarym Kioto uniyversiytetindegi zertteu jәne oqytushylyq júmystarymmen baylanysty. Osy jerde aita keteyin, Japoniyada islamdy taratqan ataqty ortaaziyalyq teolog Ábdirashid Ahun (1946 j. qaytys boldy) ekenin bilesiz be? Tokioda býgingi kýnge deyin ol jәne onyng alghashqy japon izbasarlary salghan meshit saqtalghan jәne júmys istep túr. Ol bizding dәstýrde salynghan tamasha meshit. Maghan sol meshittegi namazgha qatysudyn, osynau tanymal músylman ghalymynyng qabirine barudyng sәti týsti. Ayta ketu kerek, Ábdirashid Ahunnyng ataqty shәkirtterining biri - marqúm professor Izusu islam dinin qabyldap, sopylyqpen shúghyldanghan tanymal zertteushilerding biri boldy jәne artyna әlem moyyndaghan tamasha ghylymy múra qaldyrdy.

Ábdirashid Ahunnyng ózi kórnekti músylman teology boldy, sonymen qatar Ahmet Yasauy múrasyna jәne jalpy sopylyqqa óte qúrmetpen qarady. Men onyng japonnyng tamasha zertteushisi, Tokio uniyversiytetining professory Hisao Komatsu bastyryp shygharghan shygharmalaryn sýisinip oqyp shyqtym. Ábdirashid Ahun, islam - búl aluan týrli jәne óte iykemdi diny jýie jәne ony birjaqty teologiyalyq qorytyndy shygharatyn qúralgha, sayasy qaqtyghys qúralyna ainaldyrudyng tipti de qajeti joq dep jazdy. Nege biz osynday adamdardyng múrasyn elemeymiz jәne qaydaghy bir kýmәndi jәne agressivti iydeologiyagha úmtylamyz? Bizding aimaqtyng dindarlarynan kóp nәrseni ýirenuge bolady, seniniz! Bizding postkenestik qayta janghyruymyz keyde naghyz islamgha jat iydeologiyadan engen asa qatal qalypqa ie bolyp jatady, múnyng ózi osynau әlemdik dinning shynayy ruhyn búrmalaudan tuyndap jatqan jayt.

- Súhbat bergeninizge rahmet!

Ángimelesken Temir JÚMAN

(Sony)

"Abay-aqparat"