Internet-konferensiyamyzdyng qúrmetti qonaghy Dosay Kenjetayúlyna qoyylyp jatqan saualdardyng deni din taqyrybyn qúraydy. Ózi de osy mazmúndaghy saualdargha bilimi kemel ghalym oqyrman qauymnyng bilgisi keletin qanday mәselege bolsa da yjdaghatpen jalghasty jauap berip otyr.

"Abay-aqparat"

- Doseke, osy sopylyk joldaghy maqsat Allagha jetu, qauyshu. Al osy jolda pirding qanshalyqty roli bar. Onyng razylyghy, nazary, kelisimi ruhany damuyna nemese sopylyq joldaghy saparyna sebpitigin nemese kedergisin tiygizedi me? Eger pir әdiletsiz bolsa she? Pirding aitqany, oilaghany tikeley Alladan dep payymdaugha bola ma?

Internet-konferensiyamyzdyng qúrmetti qonaghy Dosay Kenjetayúlyna qoyylyp jatqan saualdardyng deni din taqyrybyn qúraydy. Ózi de osy mazmúndaghy saualdargha bilimi kemel ghalym oqyrman qauymnyng bilgisi keletin qanday mәselege bolsa da yjdaghatpen jalghasty jauap berip otyr.

"Abay-aqparat"

- Doseke, osy sopylyk joldaghy maqsat Allagha jetu, qauyshu. Al osy jolda pirding qanshalyqty roli bar. Onyng razylyghy, nazary, kelisimi ruhany damuyna nemese sopylyq joldaghy saparyna sebpitigin nemese kedergisin tiygizedi me? Eger pir әdiletsiz bolsa she? Pirding aitqany, oilaghany tikeley Alladan dep payymdaugha bola ma?

- Súraghynyzdyng jauaby ishinde eken. Eger piring kemel adam bolsa, onda saghan septigi bar, al eger jalghan pir bolsa, uaqytynnyng bosqa ketkeni. Eger piring kәmil bolsa, onda «fana fy shayh» maqamy boyynsha, osy jolda damu kórsetesin.

- Kóshpeli babalarymyz әsire dindar bolmaghan, dinning bәrine shydammen qaraghan, biraq ózderi jaratqanshyl bolghan. Sebebi nede dep oilaysyz?

- Sebebi jauabynyzdyng ishinde saqtauly túrghan siyaqty. Kóshpeli babalarymyzdyng әsire dinshil bolmauynyn, dinning bәrine shydammen qarauynyn, biraq ózderining jaratqanshyl boluynyng negizgi sebebi týrkilik dinning uniyversaldylyghynda jәne siklidi oilau jýiesinde jatyr.

- Múrat Adjidyng enbekterimen tanyssyz ba? Hristian dinine qatysty jazbalaryna ne deysiz?

- Jaqsy jazylghan, tanymdyq mazmúny bar qúndy enbek der edim.

- Iasauy tarihaty ne sebepti keninen zerttelmegen. Ásirese Batys ghalymdary arasynda. Múnyng sebebin M.Búltay aitpaqshy: "Iasauy tarihatynyng 14 gh. joyylyp ketkeninen" izdeu kerek pe әlde, Z.Jandarbek aitpaqshy: "Nahshbandiya tarihatynyng Iasauiya múralaryn qasaqana qúrtyp, joyghanynan" izdegen dúrys pa?

- Sebebi Iasauy tariqatynyng kenistigi negizinen Ortalyq Aziya bolyp qaldy. Al ol jer keshegi kenestik iydeologiya qyspaghynda boldy. Iasauitanu zertteuleri býgingi tanda endi ghana qolgha alyna bastady.

- Shәkәrimdi, Abaydy, Mәshhýrdi sopy dep jýr. Sopy bolsa, olar qay tarihittyng ókili eken? Álde sopy bolu ýshin tarihat, pir shartty nәrse me?

- Mәshhýr men Shakәrim babalar naqshy tariqatynan susyndaghan. Sopy bolu tariqattyng «tәuba»maqamynan ótip, pirge qol berumen bastalatyn úzyn da búralany kóp, qiyn da auyr jol. Sabyr maqamyna jetu ekining birining qolynan keletin is emes.

2012 jyl turaly el ishinde әrtýrli әngimeler bar. Osy 2012 jyly Mahdy kelmey me? Jalpy óziniz osy iydeyagha qalay qaraysyz.

Mahdy iydeya retinde sunniylerde de bar. Jalpy barlyq din ataulynyng ózinde bar qúbylys. Sondyqtan búl fenomendi uniyversaldy dey alamyz. Al eger biyl mahdy kelse, kýtip alamyz...

- Eger sopylarda aqiqat bolsa, nemenege bólingen, mysaly Nahshbandiya, Yasauiya, Kadariya, Bektashiya jәne t.b. bolyp?

- Haqiqatqa bara jol sheksiz. Sondyqtan oghan barar jol, yaghny metod da sheksiz sondyqtan tariqattar da ózining әdisterine qaray, kenistigine qaray bólinip kete beredi. Onda túrghan eshtene joq.

- Sopy bolghan jaqsy ghoy, biraq anau basty arly berli búlghandatyp,  baqsylarsha miyn maysha shayqau - adamy qalypqa jarasady ma eken, Dosay agha, qalay oilaysyz? Ruhany mәngýrttikting belgisi emes pe eken búl? Dosay agha, sopylyq tarihymyz degenmen, osy bas shayqau әreketin shyn kónilinizben qabyl ettiniz be, týisiginiz dúrys qabyldady ma?

Jauap kýtemin. Aldyn ala rahmet.
Astanalyq qaryndasynyz

- Ol zikir saludyng formasy ghana. Ol «chahar zarb», yaghni, tórt jaqtan úru degen sóz. Jýrekti zikirmen iygeru metody. Psihotehnikalyq tarihy tereng әdis. Ony býgingi sopylar oilap tapqan joq ol búrynnan bar, jahry tariqattardyng zikir salu formasy. Onyng týrleri de kóp, zikry arra, zikry halqa, zikry zangy jәne t.b. jalpy jahry zikirding otyzgha juyq týrleri bar.

- Jeti adamgha jan bergen Mýsәrәli Sopy qay jerde jerlengen? Baba Týkti Shashty Áziz mazarynda ma, әlde Týrkistandaghy Yassauy babamyzdyng kesenesinde me?

- Úmytpasam Shayanda bolu kerek........

- Dosay agha, osy Jylaghan ata týraly tolyghyraq maghlúmatty qaydan biluge bolady? Ol kisi de sopy bolghan ba? Jylaghan ata jatqan jerge baryp Qúran oqysa, qúp-qúrghaq búlaq basynan 3-4 minut boyy atqylap su shyghady degen ras pa? Onyng qúpiyasy nede eken? Raqmet.

- Ol turaly Týrkistan ortalyq muzeyining turizm bóliminen biluge bolady.

- Dosay Túrsynbayúly, QR Din isteri agenttigining Sopylyqqa kózqarasy qanday? Ol jerdegi mamandar, basy Q.L.Sharif bolyp Iasauiya tariqatyn tolyqtay bile me?

- Kózqarastary belgili. Onda men tanityn Qazaqstanda túnghysh filosofiya boyynsha doktorlyq qorghaghan Aydar Ábuov Parqúlúly, әdebiyet salasy boyynsha Aynúr Ábdirәsilqyzy Týlkibaeva bar. Jalpy Iasauiydi biledi dep esepteymin.

- Sәlemetsiz be, Dosay agha! Qazaqstanda vahhabitter sonshalyqty tereng tamyr jayghan ba? Vahhabizm bizge nesimen qauipti?

- Vahabbizm qazirgi qazaq jastary arasynda óte tereng yqpalgha ie aghym bolyp otyr. Búl aghym Hanafy mazhabyn «kәpirlerding mazhaby» dep tanityn, islamdaghy revolusiyalyq sipattaghy, Maturudy aqidasyna tózimdiligi joq, qazirgi zaman talabyna pysqyryp qaramaytyn, Qúrandy jattandy erejeler men normalar retinde qaraytyn, kez kelgen ayatty sózdik maghynasynda týsinuge shaqyratyn, Tauil degenge jany qas, aqyldyng tarazysyn tónkerip tastaytyn, ózderinen basqanyng barlyghyn mushrik deytin, ózderining sharighatynan basqanyng barlyghyna biydghat retinde qaraytyn, aqyl men naqldy úshtasyra almaytyn, ózderinshe «islam dinining polisayy» kórinip jýrgen, ghylym men bilimge emes, kórsoqyrlyqqa bastaytyn, saqal men avtomatty ólshemge ainaldyrghan, býgingi islamofobiyanyng negizgi aspektisine ainalghan, kýni ótken eskirgen iydeologiya bolghanymen, Qazastanda jana sipatta tanylyp jatqan, Saudiyanyng ózi qútyla almay otyrghan «izm». Búl turaly tolyghyraq mening «Diny tanym jәne onyng satylary» degen enbegimnen oqularynyzgha bolady.

- Assalaumaghaleykum, Dosay agha. Jogharyda әr aluan tamasha súraqtar qoyylyp jatyr. Komentatorlardyng diny bilimderine sýisinip otyrmyn. Mening qoyar súraqtarym: Yassauy tariqaty men Qadariya tariqattarynyng úqsastyqtary men aiyrmashylyqtary turaly aitynyzshy?

- Ekeui de islamdaghy negizgi tariqat retinde sunny tarihynda erekshe oryngha iye. Ayyrmashylyghy metodtarynda ghana, ústanymy men iydeyasy bir. Zikirleri negizinen jahri. Kenistikteri de ortaq, Turkiyada keninen taraghan.

- Búrynghy kezdegi Naqyshbandiya ókilderi men qazirgi kezdegi naqyshbandtardyng aiyrmashylyqtary bar ma?

- Tariqat retinde metodologiyalyq aiyrmashylyq   kórinbeydi. Olardyng ókilderining mektepterine qaray kóp tarmaqqa bólinip ketken.

- Týrkiya elinen kelip missionerlik sayasatyn op-onay iske asyryp jýrgen "núrshylar" (Gulenshiler dep atalyp jýr songhy kezderi) qazaq eline qauipti me? Bolsa, nesimen?
- Sayasatqa aralaspaghansha qauip joq. Olardyng metodologiyalyq, sosiologiyalyq jәne iyerarhiyalyq tereng negizderi ýrkitedi. Aqidasy men ústanymdary jat emes. Olardan qorqatyndar sayasy sipatynan kauiptenedi. Mysaly Resey.

-"Muzyka tyndau haram" deushilerge jauabynyz qalay bolady?

- Islamda muzykanyng orny erekshe. Payghambarymyz muzykany jatsynbaghan. Sondyqtan Faraby atamyz «»Ýlken muzyka kitabyn» jazyp qaldyrghan. Ondaghy tanymdyq negiz - әlem men ruhtyng ýndestigi muzyka arqyly baqytqa jetumen týsindirilgen. Al muzykany haram degender kókiregindegi ruhtyng qay әlemnen ekendigin sezinbey jýrgender... olar kóbinese soqyr senim men úrandap jýrgen, islamnyng mәninen jyraqtaghandar bolu kerek. Qazir oghan tang qalugha bolmaydy: bas basyna muftiylerding kóbeygen kezi. Muftiattyng ýnsizdigining nәtiyjesi.

- Iasauy atamyzdyng Qúran men sunnadan esh alshaq ketpegenin qalay dәleldeymiz?

Dәlel degen sóz artyq. Ony dәleldeu emes, qalay bilemiz, qalay tanimyz degen dúrys. Al onyng sózderi Qúranmen ýndese me deseniz onda hikmetterin alyp, Qúran ayattarymen salystyryp kóriniz. Ózi «Mening hikmetterimning bar maghynasy Qúrannan», «Mening hikmetterim hadisting keni» dep anyqtaghan. Iasauy ilimi Qúrandaghy moralidyq jelini ózine negiz retinde alghan. Sondyqtan ony Shәkәrim ar týzeytin ilim degen. Tolyghyraq «Qoja Ahmet Iasauy dýniyetanymy» degen enbegimnen oqynyz.
(jalghasy bar)

«Abay-aqparat»