Asharshylyqty joqqa shygharatyndar nege kóp?
Qazaqstanda qazaq sany jyl sayyn artyp keledi, búl kremli iydeologtaryn alash júrtyna jón-josyqsyz tiyisuding jana amal-tәsilin jasaugha mәjbýr etude. Jaqynda Mәskeu Qazaq «Golodomory» - «Asharshylyqtyn» ónin ainaldyru nauqanyn taghy kóterdi. Búl joly 2005 jyldan bastap, qazaq-qyrghyz tarihyna qalam tartyp, neokolonalizm mýddesin qyzghyshtay qoryp jýrgen «Asharshylyk. Istoriya Velikogo goloda» kitabynyng avtory Dmitriy Verhoturovtyng qolymen ot kósep otyr.
Verhoturov «Asharshylyk. Istoriya Velikogo goloda» kitabynda jazghandarynan mýldem bas tartyp, ayaq astynan óz sózinen ainyp shygha keledi. Nege?
IYә, Sibir jerinde tughan 40 jastaghy әri bloger, әri Ortalyq Aziya boyynsha tarihshysymaq ózining qyrghyzdyng Stanradar.som saytyna «Qazaqtardy jәbirleushi bolmandar». Tarihshy Qazaqstandaghy «golodomorgha» kinәlilerdi ataydy» //«Ne smeyte oskorblyati kazahov»: istorik nazval vinovnyh v «golodomore» v Kazahstane (chasti I y II) atty súhbatyn ekige bólip jariyalady. Biz osy súhbatty «Abai.kz» oqyrmandaryna audaryp úsynyp otyrmyz.
Dmitriy Verhoturov deytin «tarihshy» osy
Osy StanRadar.com bergen súhbatynda tarihshysymaq: «Kәmónester kóp astyqty, kóp maldy, әriyne, ózderi ýshin osy maqsatta júmys qoly bolatyn kóp qazaqty kerek etti. Búdan shyghatyny qazaq sharuashylyghyn joyyp, qazaqtardy genosidke úshyratty degen – baryp túrghan sandyraq әm absurd», - dep, últtyq tragediyamyzgha topyraq shashady.
Qyrghyz sayty әp-bisimilәsin «...tarihshy Dmitriy Verhoturov bizge bergen súhbatynda ótken ghasyrdyng 30-40 jyldary Qazaqstanda oryn alghan oqighalar tónireginde ózdik versiyasyn әngimeleydi»,- dep bastaydy.
STANRADAR.COM: ÓTKEN GhASYRDYNG 30-ShY – 40-ShY JYLDARY QAZAQSTANDA ORYN ALGhAN AShTYQ TRAGEDIYaSY BOYYNShA QANDAY TARIHY MIFTER BAR?
– Men búl saualdyng mazmúnyn ózgertkim keledi. Isting mәnisi tarihy mifting bolghanynda emes, olardyng qanday ekendiginde. Meninshe, aqiqatynda qogham tarihy miftersiz, tarih jayyndaghy qysqa hikayattarsyz ómir sýre almaydy.
Eger bel sheshpey otbasyn asyrau ýshin múrynynan shanshylyp enbek etip jýrgen otaghasy tútas bir kitaphana jayynda aitpay-aq qoyalyq, kere qarys tarihy enbekterdi qolyna alyp oqymaydy da. Onyng barlyq tarihy úghym-týsinigi әdette tarihy mif dep atalatyn shaghyn auyzsha әngime tónireginde túiyqtalady.
Mekteptegi tarih oqulyghy da tarihy mifterding jiyntyghy. Mening búny aityp túrghanym tarihy mifterding bәri birdey atynan at ýrketindey jaman emes.
Mif jaman bolady sol jaghdayda: eger ony tarihty búrmalap, qiyaldan joqty bardy qosyp әngimeleytin bolsa, mine, Qazaqstandaghy 1930 jylghy ashtyq tap sonday byljyraghandyq. Búl onyng ýstine, eng aldymen, qazaqtardyng ózderi ýshin – әm sandyraq, әm absurd.
STANRADAR.COM: NEGE?
– Ádette «golodomorshylardyn» kitaptarynda: «auylgha tótenshe uәkil kelip, tapanshasyn qazaqtargha qaratyp, olardyng barlyq maldaryn tartyp alghany bylay túrsyn, susyz, azyq-týliksiz qu mediyenge qonys tebuge mәjbýr etti. Nәtiyjesinde malsyz qalghan qazaqtar ashtan qyryldy» dep әngimelenedi.
Qúlaq asatyn bolsanyzdar, auyldaghy 10 kiygiz ýide eluge tarta jan túrsa, onda onyng 15-20 erkekter edi. Ýlken auyldarda el qarasy odan da kóptin. Olar jyn úrghanday tiksingen tótenshe uәkildi astygha eki býktep nege jyqpaydy? Araqqa sileyte toyghyzyp, el kórmeytin jerge óligin kómip tastaugha milary jetpedi me? Óitkeni, ózderining malsyz ashtan óletinin qazaqtar bek jaqsy bildi ghoy!?
Eger osylardyng bәrine imanday úiyp sene beretin bolsaq, qazaqtar sonday jasqanshaq jandar, olardy kózin baqyraytyp qoyyp tonap alugha bolady degen oigha qalamyz. Qorghansyz әm ózderin mýldem qorghay almaytyn múndarlar. Búl degeniniz qazaqtardy adam qúrly kórmey, olardy it etinen jek kórip, osynday malghúndyq әngimelerdi kóiitip, ony memleketik dengeyde tanudy talap etushilik bassyzdyq!
Mende qazaqtardy adam qúrly kórmeu, olardy it etinen jek kóru sezimi joq, sondyqtan, «golodomorshylardyn» versiyasy býkil últty qorlau jәnede әm sandyraq, әm absurd degen týiindeu jasadym. Shyndyghynda isting mәnisi mýldem basqasha bolghan edi.
STANRADAR.COM: OLAY BOLSA, SIZDING PIKIRINIZShE BÁRI QALAY BOLGhAN?
Tayauda búrynnan ózimdi mazalap jýrgen osy mәsele boyynsha jana zertteuler jasadym. Men keybir manyzdy qújattardy mәskeulik arhivten taptym, odan bólek ózime búryn belgisiz bolghan materialdary kitaphanalardan jinastyrdym. Júrt búghan deyin jazghan «Asharshylyk. Istoriya Velikogo goloda» kitabymdy biledi. Endi men ony týke jaramsyz dep tauyp, búrynghy jazghanymdardy qatelik ekenin úghyndym. Endi men basqa kitapty jazyp shyqtym, onyng búghan deyin jaryq kórgen enbekterden týbegeyli ózgesheligi bar, onda men ózdik versiyamdy algha tarttym.
STANRADAR.COM: ENDI SOL ORYN ALGhAN OQIGhA TURASYNDAGhY ÓZDIK VERSIYaNYZDY SÓZ ETSENIZ?
– Birinshiden, kenestik jospar qazaqtargha qatysty genosid jasaudy mýldem oilastyrghan joq, kerisinshe, qazaqtardyng ósip-óngenin qalady. Maghan Qúday iyip, temekilik qaghazgha basylyp, әbden óni ozghan KSRO Jersharuashylyghy halkomynyng josparyn arhivten tauyp alu baqyty búiyrdy.
Onda eger 1929/30 jyldary 861,1 myng qazaq sharuashylyghy bolsa, 1932/33 jyldary 907,3 myng bolugha tiyistigi kórsetilipti.
Búl kezde әr qazaq sharuashylyghynda orta eseppen 4,8 adam bolsa, 1929/30 QazaqAKSR 4 mln 133,2 myng qazaq bolugha tistin, al, 1932/33 jyly 4 mln 355 myngha jetui kerek bolatyn.
Sebep óte qarapayym. Qazaqtargha ýlken tapsyrma: 4,9 mln gektar jerdi (QAKSR barlyq egindik jerining 40%) jyrtu jәne sol kezde 28,5 mln bolghan mal basyn: 1932/33 jyly 53,3 mln jetkizu jýkteldi. Ár eresek adamgha orta eseppen 1,8 gektar egindik pen 10,5 bastan keldi.
Ekinshiden, odaqtyq ortalyq Qazaqstangha 1931-1934 jyldary 2 mlrd asa rubli bólse, onyng 750 mln rubli auylsharuashylyghyna arnaldy.
1931 jyly auylsharuashylyghyna týsetin tabys 35,6 mln. rublige baghalynyp, 21 jylgha arnalyp, auylsharuashylghy qyzmetkerlerin, qazaqtar men orystardy bólip-jarmay tendey qarastyryldy. Statistika tanytyp túrghanday Mәskeu Qazaqstannan alghan joq, kerisinshe berdi.
Osylaysha, kәmónester kóp astyqty, kóp maldy, әriyne, ózderi ýshin osy maqsatta júmys qoly bolatyn kóp qazaqty kerek etti. Búdan shyghatyny qazaq sharuashylyghyn joyyp, qazaqtardy genosidke úshyratty degen – baryp túrghan sandyraq әm absurd. Osydan kelip, qazaq sharuashylyghyn kim býldirip, kim joq qyldy degen saual tuyndaydy?
STANRADAR.COM: KIM JOQ QYLGhYSY KELDI?
– Bayshykeshter (baystvo)! Qazaq bayshyldary újymdasqan qazaq auyldaryn joyyp jiberudi qatty qalady әm aqyr ayaghynda oilaghandaryna qol jetkizdi.
Mening búl mәlimdemem ashu-yza men narazalyq tudyrady dep oilaymyn. Óitken, bay degeniniz sonday mәrt әm bekzat jandar bolghan ghoy. Biraq men 1927 jyldyng jazynda ózining tóltuma kýiinde saqtalghan, ne naryq, ne kenestendiru óz yqpalyn tiygizbegen Qyrghyz AKSR qiyrdaghy kóship-qoyn jýrgen aiylynda jýrgizilgen tamasha bir әleumettik-ekonomikalyq zertteudi úshyrattym.
Zertteuding avtorlary Pogoreliskiy men Batrakov joldastar óte kólemdi әngimelesuler men saualnamalar jýrgizip, sharuashylyq pen mal jayyn sipattap, ózderining esepteulerin jasaydy. Olar qyrghyz ben qazaq auyldaryn ózara salystyra otyryp, qyrghyz aiylyndaghy keybir qúbylystardy sipattau ýshin (atap aitsaq, atqa miner, sasyq bay siyaqty) qazaq terminderin qoldanady.
Olar búnysymen ne aitpaqshy boldy? Birinshiden, rulyq qarym-qatynas degenimiz – qarapayym kóshpendilerdi ayausyz qanap, ózderine qúldanu ýshin baylardyng oilap shygharghan byljyraghy. Ekinshiden, qyrghyz manaptary meymanasy asqan shúbar balaq, shynjyr tós mol baylyq iyesi boldy, olardyng ishinde dәureni jýrgenderding malynan bólek, qúny 30 myng rublimen baghalanghan jeke mýlki de bartyn.
Salystyru ýshin sóz etsek, óte bay degen orys qúlaghy bar jaghy 5-6 myng rublidik mal-mýlikke iyelik etti. 20-30 myng rubliding kapitaly bar qúlaq tónkeriske deyin shyn mәnisinde astyq saudasymen ainalysty. Asyp shalqyghan manaptar jyl sayyn 14 - 15 myn rubli payda kórip, jeke bastary ýshin 6 - 7 myng rubli júmsasa, búnyng 600 rubli aqshamen edi. Auyl proletariat bir jylgha bar bolghany 37 rubli júmasady.
Ýshinshiden, bay-manap pen jarly-jaqybay arasynda jer men kóktey zor aiyrma bar edi. Jarly-jaqybaylardyng búl tirligin Pogoreliskiy men Batrakov basybaylylyq dep baghalady. Biraq orystyng basybaylylary teoriyalyq túrghydan Aq Patshagha shaghymdana alsa, qyrghyz manaby ózi sot, ózi jendet bolatyn. Qazaq baylary da tap sondaytyn. Kenes ýkimeti búnyng bәrin óz aqyl-parasatyna salyp: enbekshiler kez kelgen kontrtónkerisshi elementterge emes, kenes memleketine qyzmet etui kerek. Tap osy tústa enbekshilerge óz biyligin jýrgizu ýshin kәmónester men baylar arasynda ólispey berispeytin kýres bastaldy. Bayshykeshter әueli basmashtargha ýmit artty, ashyq shayqasta tez jenilip qaldy.
Kәmónester baylardyng nar jigitterine qaraghanda, qylyshty qangha kóp boyap, súr myltyq (vintovok) pen oqqúsardan (pulemetten) atqanyn mýlt ketkizbeytin. Olargha esh qayran qyla almaghan son, baylar óz zәrin újymdasudy qoshtaghan qarapayym halyqqa tókti. Óitkeni, olar sondarynan ergen joq qoy! Kenes ýkimeti olargha kezinde baydan tartyp alghan jer men maldy, odan keyin traktor, kombayn, avtomobiliderdi berip, sauatyn ashyp, sharuashylyq jýrgizu amal-tәsilderine ýiretti.
Bayshykeshter Kenes ýkimetin qoldaghandardyng kózin týrli joldarmen joydy: tikeley lankestikpen, tabanda joq qylyp jiberumen, tonaushylyq jasaumen, keyde asyra mal salyghyn salumen, sonday-aq, malgha júqpaly auyru júqqyzyp, bakteriologiyalyq soghysta jýrgizdi.
Mine osy songhysy Qazaqstandaghy mal basynyng kýrt kemuining sebebi bolyp tabylady. Men búny aighaqtaytyn dýniyelerdi taba aldym. Osynyng sebep-saldarymen betpe-bet kelgen kәmónester qalghan-qútqan baylargha qarsy óz tynshylaryna arqa sýiey otyryp, birqatar astyrtyn jazalau is-sharalaryn jýzege asyryp, olardy tolyqtay qúrtyp jibere aldy, dәlirek aitsaq, 1934 jyly qazaq tarihynan bayshykeshtik bir jola óshti.
Men osy kýresting qúrbany aspannan alynghan milliondar emes, 650 mynday qazaq bolghandyghyn eseptep shyqtym. Osy qisyndy әdistememen jasalynghan esepteu arqyly mening jana kitabymda ózge de siltemeler men faktiler keltiriledi.
STANRADAR.COM: QAZAQSTANDAGhY AShTYQ TURALY TAQYRYPQA ÁSIRESE SAYaSATKERLER ARASYNDA YNTA TANYTUShYLYQ NEMEN BAYLANYSTY ÓZI?
– Qazaqstandaghy «golodomor» nemese óz basym «qazgenosiyd» dep ataytyn mifting ózdiginen payda bola qalyp, qylang berushiligin iydeologiyalyq sebep-saldardan dep sanaymyn.
Birinshiden, Qazaqstan tәuelsiz el atanghan son, iydeologiyany kereksindi. Áriyne Qazaqstan Respublikasy QazaqKSR shekpeninen shyqsa da, kenestik emes, qazaq últshyldyq iydeologiyasyn hosh kórdi. Osy túrghydan barlyq kenestik kezendegi qazaq tarihyna kýie jaghylyp, dýniyening bәri Alash-Orda tóniregine toqaylastyryla shoghyrlandyryldy.
Ekinshiden, qazaq últy ýshin onyng sayasiy-qoghamdyq kenistiktegi ómir sýru qúqyghyn jәne barylyghy men narlyghyn úqtyratyn, el bolyp bir shanyraqqa úiystyratyn tarih kerek.
Degenmen, biz qazaqtardyng kóbine bastary qosyla bermeytin ru-taypagha jәne jýzge bólingenin jaqsy bilemiz. Memlekettikti olargha Shyghyshan әuleti tartu etip, odan keyin úzaq uaqyt Resey imperiyasynyng qanatynyng astynda boldy. Búnday tarihty týrli shoqpyttan qalaysha qayyra qúrastyrasyn.
Sol sebepti de qazaqtardyng basyn qosqan jalghyz tarihy oqigha «ashtyq» bolyp tabylyp, «golodomorshylar» ony mintazdady. Aralarynda jer men kóktey airymashylyq bolsa da, mening elordalyq bastyq bolghan ata-babam auyl qazaghymen birge zardap shekti. Qazaqtardyng qazaq bolyp qaluy, Stalin joldastyng jerimizdi talan-tarajgha salyp, kesip-piship tartyp aluy da, odaqtas respublika mәrtebesin berui de emes, ózi jýrgizgen «genosiyd» ýshin at-shapan aibyn tóleui degenge sayatyn «qazgenosiyd» turaly mifke arqa sýieydi.
STANRADAR.COM: NE SEBEPTI DÁL QAZIR BÚL ASA TANYMAL BOLYP, KENINEN NASIHATTALA BASTALDY?
– Biletin bolsanyz, búghan deyin Qazaqstannyng Túnghysh Preziydenti Núrsúltan Nazarbaev qazaqtardy jarqyn bolashaq turaly iydeyalardyng jetegine ergizip aldarqatyp, ótken tarihtan alastatyp ústay bildi. Sol sebepti 1980-shy jyldardyng sonynda payda bolghan osy mifke úzyn arqan, keng túsau sala aldy. Biraq jarqyn bolashaq turasyndaghy dәmening kýli kókke úshqandyqtan ary qaray júrtty ne kýtip túrghany aiqyn bola týsti.
Olardyng aldynda mynaday tandau túr: ne Stalindi Qazaqstandy ómirge әkelushi dep tanu, ne «qazgenosidke» jata jabysyp qalu.
Qazaq naspattary óz tandauyn jasap, ózge júrt bizdi mýsirkep, Reseyge qoyghan talabymyzdy qoldap, ony әikәpir qylady degen esek dәmening jetegine ilesti. Qalghan qazaq qoghamy әzirshe әri-sәri kýide qalyp, lәmim dep jaq ashpauda.
STANRADAR.COM: SIZ BÚL ÝRDISTI QALAY BAGhALAYSYZ: BÚL TARIHTY QAYYRA PAYYMDAU MA, ÁLDE TARIHTY BÚRMALAU MA?
– Mifting qalay ómirge kelgenining parqyn úghynghan son, óte qyzyqty әm taghylymdy naghyz tarihtyng ónin ainaldyratyn oidan shyghyralghan qisyndargha qúrylghan dóreki búrmaulaushylyq degen birjaqty qortyndygha keldim. Búl baryp túrghan qasaqana әri sanaly týrdegi tarihtyng ónin ainaldyrushylyq bolyp tabylady.
Qazaqstan tarihyn bes sausaghynday biletin, «golodomordyn» taza fiksiya әm oidan shygharylghan dýnie ekendigin úghynatyn akademik Manash Qozybaev 1980-1990-shy jyldar toghysynda osy qyryq qúraudy jamap jasqaugha jetekshilik etti.
Bir sózben aitqanda, ol kezinde Qazaq Kenes ensiklopediyasynyng bas redaktory boldy. Ol sayasy mýdde bәrin aqtap shyghady dep sanady.
Biraq, Chehoslovakiyanyng birinshi preziydenti zanghar tarihshy Tomash Masarik kezinde: «Eger Úly dýnie ótirik bolsa, eshqashan úly bola almaydy» degen bolatyn. Jalghandyq – úlyghtyq emes, jalghandyq eng pasyq, eng jirkenishti әm úyattan betti qyzartatyn dýniye.
Qazaqtar qolyndaghy malyn tartyp alghan son, ashtan ólip qaldy deytin «golodomorshylardyn» payymdaulary aitugha auyz barmaytyn jeksúryndyq, әri qazaqtardy qorlau bolyp sanalady.
Meninshe, búnyng bәri sausaqtan sorylyp alynghan «qazgenosiyd» turasyndaghy mif qana bolyp tabylady.
STANRADAR.COM: KENG KÓLEMDE QOLGhA ALYNYP OTYRGhAN TARIHTY BÚRMALAUShYLYQTYNG ÁM QAYYRA JAZUShYLYQTYNG ARTY NEGE APARYP SOQTYRADY?
– Búl jayynda Qazaqstan tarihyndaghy búnday úghym-týsinikti el sanasyna siniru Resey men Qazaqstan arasynda dýrdarazdyqtyng dúshpandyq otyn jaghady dep ózimning bir súhbatymda sóz etken bolatymyn. Kәmónester barlyq qazaqqa jer men mal berip, әleueti zor ónerkәsip, temir joldardy, qalalardy salyp berdi. Búl ýshin basty jerge iyip, alghys aitu kerek.
Qazaqtar kómir jagha bilmedi, olardyng saz balshyqtan salghan peshteri onyng qyzuyna shydamay jarylyp ketti. Eger orystar bolmasa, qazaqtar kórshileri dúrys kezdespegen basqa kóptegen halyqtardyng biri bolyp, jer betinen mýldem joq bolyp keter edi. Resey aqkónildilikke basyp, bergenin búldaghan joq, eshqashan qazaqtyng tәuelsizdigi men bostandyghyna qolyn súqpady. Biraq «golodomor» turasyndaghy kinә taghushylyq búl shekten shyghyp, tóbede shoqpar oinatqan mysyqtileu qarau tirlik. Olar shynymen Reseyding qas jauyna ainalghylary kele me?
Qazir әlemde halyqaralyq qatynas shiyelenisip, búrynghy siz-bizdesuge oryn qalmay keledi. Osy kezde «Kim – dos, Kim – jau?» degen súraq sóz jýzinde emes, is jýzinde tuyndaydy. Reseyde búl saual tótesinen qoyylyp óz sheshimin tabady.
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Ábil-Serik Áliakbar
Abai.kz
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