Býgingi tanda medisina salasy óte joghary dengeyde damu ýstinde. Ár halyq ózining dәstýrli dәrigerligine de erekshe mәn berip, ony әlemdik medisina ghylymymen úshtasyrugha baryn salyp otyr. Shyny kerek qazir shyghys medisinansy degen atau nauqasyna shipa izdegen kóptegen jandy ózine tartyp jýrgeni mәlim. Izraili, Germaniya, Qytay elderining medisinasy da jaqsy súranysqa iye. Qazaqstan medisinasy da jýieli damu jolyna qadam basuda. Al, qazaq dәrigerligi qanday jaghdayda? Onyng qazirgi jay-kýii, naqty qoldanysqa ie boluy qalay? Jalpy qazaq dәrigerligi degen ne? Búl súraqtargha jauapty medisina mamany, әmbebap dәriger, qazaq dәrigerligin naqty ispen, praktikalyq túrghyda qoldanyp jýrgen azamat Tolqyn Aqanúlymen bolghan súhbattan oqy alasyzdar.

Tolqyn Aqanúly: 

Qazaq medisinasy zamanauy medisinadan esh kem emes

– Tolqyn myrza әngimeni aldymen ózinizdi qysqasha tanystyra ketuden bastayyq, qayda bilim alyp, alghash ret aq halatty qashan kiydiniz?

–  Áueli mening tuyp-ósken jerim Qytaygha qarasty Tarbaghatay aimaghy, Toly audany degen jer. Qytay Halyq Respublikasy Shynjang medisina uniyversiytetindegi Klinikalyq emdeu fakulitetin bitirdim. Oqudy tәmәmdaghan song alghashqy enbek jolyn tughan audanymnan bastap, 20 jylday medisina salasynda dәrigerlik qyzmet atqardym. Sodan 2007 jyldyng ayaghyna qaray «elim-aylap» ata júrt, qara shanyraq bolghan býkil qazaqtyng ordaly otany – Qazaqstangha qonys audardym, Astana qalasyna irge teptim. 

Kelgen song әriyne tiri adam tirshiligin jasaydy ghoy, eki qolgha bir kýrek ústaytyn mýmkindigimiz bar bolghan song óz mamandyghym boyynsha júmys isteuge kiristim. Eki jylgha juyq týrli qýjattardy rettep dayyndaghan song 2009 jyly jekelik medisina ortalyghyn ashyp, halyqqa qyzmet kórsete bastadyq.

2012 jyly júmysymyzdy keneytip, «Baqkeldi» qazaq medisina ortalyghyn JShS dengeyine jetkizdik. Sodan beri talay jannyng nauqasyna shipa bolu ýshin bilim-biligimizdi ayamay, óz hal-qadirimizshe enbektenip kelemiz. Tek Astanada ghana otyrmay respublikanyng әr ónirine baryp, ontýtik, batys, soltýstik oblystardy aralap dәrigerlik qyzmet kórsettik.

 – Negizi, medisina salsynyng qanday mamandyq týrin oqyp ediniz?

– Men medisinanyng bir týrin ghana oqyghan joqpyn, mamandyghym jalpy medisina dep ataldy. Yaghni, dәrigerlikting әr týri boyynsha mamandandym. 

Jalpy Qytayda medisina: aldyn-alu medisinasy, klinikalyq medisina jәne gigiyenalyq medisina dep ýshke bólinedi. Men osy ýsheuin de oqydym. Jogharghy oqu ornyn bitirgen song gigiyenalyq medisina boyynsha enbek ettim. Dәrigerlik mekemening «әr bólimge maman bolu» deytin belgilemesi bar edi. Ol boyynsha kóp bólimderde nauqastardy emdedim. Mәselen, negizgi júmysym terapevt bolsa, keyin hirurg, balalar dәrigeri boldyq, jedel jәrdem bóliminde de istedim. 

Sosyn mamandardy tәjiriybe jinap, shyndalu ýshin auyldy jerlerge jiberetin edi. Al, kez-kelgen auyldyng klinikasyna barsang onda ýlken qalalardaghy emhanalarday jeke-jeke bólim joq. Kelgen nauqastyng bәrin qarap, enbektegen sәbiyden, enkeygen kәrige deyin emdeuge tura keledi. Tipti, akusher bolyp, ekiqabat analardy da bosandyrugha tura keledi. Osylay enbek ete jýrip, barlyq salada mamandanugha mýmkindik aldyq.  Sosyn, búl bilimimizge qosa tamyr ústap, shóp dәrilermen emdeu isin de qosa ýirendik. 

– Búny sonda halyqtyq em retinde qarastyrugha bola ma? 

– Joq, búl halyqtyq em emes. Osy baghytpen emdeudi halyqtyq em dep týsinu kishkene jalang úghymgha boy úru der edim. Búl negizi qazaq dәrigerligi. Mәselen, qytay dәrigerliginde shóp dәriler jayly terenirek aitylyp, zerttelgen. 

Al, HIV ghasyrdaghy Áz Jәnibek han túsynda ómir sýrgen qazaq shipageri Óteyboydaq Tileughabylúlynyng «Shipagerlik bayan» kitabyna negizdele otyryp, Shynjang qazaqtary qazaq dәrigerligin birshama zerttedi. Jiyrma jyldan beri osy salany tereng qauzap, jan-jaqty damytyp keledi. Naqtyraq aitsaq, qytay medisina salasynda osy qazaq dәrigerligin qytaydaghy altynshy medisina retinde halyqaralyq dengeyde tanytqan. 

– Qazaq dәrigerligining ózine tәn erekshelikteri qanday?

– Qazir Qytayda qazaq dәrigerligi baghytynda júmys isteytin derbes klinikalar, olardyng qaramaghynda dәri-dәrmek jasaytyn zerthanalyq oryndary da bar. Arnauly qazaq dәrigerligi ghylymyn oqytyp jatqan medisina uniyversiyteti bilim beredi. Al, qazaq dәrigerligining ózindik erekshelikteri úshan-teniz der edim. Bir sózben aitqanda qazirgi zamanauy medisinadan esh kem emes, әueli odan kóp artyqshylyq tústary bar. Qytay medisinasy, shyghys medisinasy, europalyq medisinalarmen salystyrghanda tarihy tereng dep oilaymyn. Tek sony jýeyeli týrde, joghary dengeyde zertteudi kemeldendiru qajet. 

Qazirgi kýni biz qoldanyp jýrgen medisina tek naqty ghylymy negizde baghyttalghan, naqtylanghan týri deuge bolady. Onyng emdeu baghyty, ukol-dәri, ne operasiya jasau, týrli medisinalyq tehnologiyalardyng kómegine jýginu arqyly birjaqty jýzege asady. 

Sonymen qatar, býgingi tanda beleng alyp jýrgen halyq emshiligi degen úghym bar. Onyng negizgi emdau tәsili ruhani, psihologiyalyq úrghyny basymdyqqa ústap, úshyqtau, qasiyet arqyly aurudyng sebebin anyqtau, diagnoz qoi, boygha qonghan erekshe bir tylsym arqyly emdeu bolyp keledi. Demek, zamanauy medisina men halyq emshiligi bir-birine qarama-qarsy úghym desek artyq emes. 

Al, qazaq dәrigerligi ghylymy medisina men halyq emshiligining baghytyn biriktire júmys isteydi. Ekeuine de qarsy kózqaras ústanbaydy, bireuining ghyliym negizin algha ústasa, ekinshisining halyqtyq negizin paydagha jaratady. Yaghni, ekeuining de adam balasynyng densaulyghy ýshin qajet, nauqasy ýshin shipa bolatyn tústaryn alady. Jalpy adamdy emdeu ýshin ekeuining de qajet ekenin dәleleydi, solardyng arasynan ózine tәn emdeu jolyn ústanyp shyghady. 

Bizding ortalyqtyng aty da qazaq emhanasy. Osyghan oray qazaq dәrigerligin dәripteudi algha qoyyp otyrmyz. Shyn mәninde bolashaqtaghy negizgi nysanamyz – qazaq dәrigerligin biyikke kóteru. Qazirgi kýni biz nauqas jandargha shipa kórsetudi shyghys emimen birlese jýrgizudemiz. Ózim shyghys emshiligine qosa qazaq dәrigerliginen de bilim alghanymdy aittym. Shóp dәri jasau, tamyr ústau, ota jasau, qan alu t.b san týrli qazaq dәrigerligining emdeu joldary bar. Massaj, iyne salu әdisteri de qazaq dәrigerliginde keninen óris alghan. 

– 2007 jyldyng ayaghynda elge oraldynyz, ol jaqtaghy qyzmetti tastap, qonys audaru sheshimine qalay keldiniz?

–  Qytayda, әsirese biz túrghan ónirde dәrigerlik mamandyghyn bitirgen adam ýshin júmys jasau óte qolayly, shart-jaghdayy da jaqsy edi. Ózimizge tiyesili abyroy-bedelimiz, kәsiby dәrejemiz, qolda úqyghymyz da boldy. Tipti, qyzmettik satyda odan da joghary ósiremiz dep túrghanda men az da bolsa qazaqtyng eline halqyna, jerine enbegimiz sinsin, bir tamshy ter tóksek te óz memleketimizge arnalsyn degen oi-armanmen osylay qaray qonys audardym. Ol jaqtaghy qolaylylyqty da, qyzmettik jaqsy jaghday men mәnsapty da tastap atamekenge tarttyq. Sol kezde alghash shekaradan ótip, ana otannyng topyraghyn basqandaghy jýrek tolqynysynan birneshe shumaq óleng tuyp edi, aqyn emespin, biraq sonda da kónilden shyqqan sóz bolghan song oqyp bereyin:

Kendigine sýiinip dalasynyn, 

Bir emine jaramaq bop jarasynyn.

Alystan elin, jerin ansap kelgen,

Qazaq degen atamnyng balasymyn.

Býgin bop túr mening atym – oralman, 

Tilin, dinin, búzbay aman oralghan.

Bir kýsh meni jetektedi Otan dep, 

Sosyn osy betke qaray jol algham.

Zapy shegip, sýikimsiz bop kelgem joq,

«Elim-aylap», «últym-aylap» oralgham.

Atym qazaq, shette tuyp, shette óstim,

Tynysymdy taryltqan joq kóp kóshkin.

Jaltaqtamay, japaqtamay eshkimge, 

Erkin jýrip, sóilep óstim kep-keskin.

«Esi barlar elin ansayd» deushi edi, 

«El irgesi býtindelsin»  dep kóshtim..  

Eldi saghynghan, qazaq dalasyn ansaghan kýiimizdi osylay beynelegen bolyp edik. 

– Bәrekeldi, shalqyghan kónil-kýiding «diagnozyn dәl tapqan» óleng eken. Al, elge kelgen alghashqy uaqyttarda azdap qiyndyqtar bolghan shyghar, búl «synaqtardan» qalay óttiniz?

– Áriyne, bir memleketten ekinshi memleketke qonys audaru onay-ospaq is emes. Alghash kelgen kezderde osy ortagha ýirenip, sinisip ketude az-maz qiynshylyqtar bolmay qalghan joq. Ásirese, júmys bastaugha qatysty qújat jinau, qytaydyng jogharghy oqu ornyn bitirgen diplomdarymyzdy anyqtatu deytin mәselelerding ózi biraz uaqytqa sozyldy. Kýttik, sonyng bәrin jenip, mәseleni ret-retimen, sabyrmen sheshe bildik. 

Al, men medisinalyq ortalyghyma eshqanday jarnama jasaghan adam emespin. Eng alghash júmysqy kirisip, dәrigerlik em jasaudy bir-aq adamnan – óz kórshimnen bastadym. Ol kisige jasaghan emim shipa  bolyp, jazylghan song ainalasyndaghy basqa adamdardy ózi shaqyrdy. Em-dom sәtti jasalghan song olar ózge adamdargha aitty, sóitip syrqatyna daua izdegen jandar kóbeye berdi. Jalghyz jetispeytin bolghan song medbiyke qyzmetin atqarghan kelinshegimdi qasyma aldym. Keyin basqa da qyzmetkerlerdi júmysqa tarttyq. Osylay aqyryndap ortalyghymyz úlghaya berdi, Qaraghandy, Taraz qalalarynda filialdaryn ashtyq. 

– Qazir qansha adam júmys isteydi?

– Ortalyqta 40-qa juyq adam qyzmet atqarady. Barlyq qújattarymyz tolyq, memleketke ay sayyn salyghyn tólep, neshe ondaghan adamdy júmyspen qamtyp otyrmyz. Al, alystan júmys izdep kelgen mamandardy shamamyz kelgenshe jaghdayyn jasaugha tyrysamyz. Olar qashan júmysqa túrghansha jatyn oryn, isher aspen qamdap jәrdem beremiz, talay adamnyng razylyghyn aldyq. 

Áriyne, naryqtyq zamanda adamdar payda tabudy basty maqsat etetini anyq. Biraq bizding negizgi qyzmet kórsetu baghytymyz tek aqsha tabudyng sonyna týsu emes. Eng aldymen dәrigerlik jauapkershilik pen syrqat adamnyng nauqasyna qolymyzdan kelgenshe kómek kórsetip, emdeu. Aldymyzgha qoyghan nysanamyz halyqtyng densaulyghy ýshin qyzmet  etu bolghandyqtan kóptegen qiynshylyghy bar adamdargha jenildikter jasap, dertine daua syilaudy oilaymyz. 

Tipti, keybir mýlde jaghdayy joq nauqastardy býtindey tegin emdep, sol adamdardyng sauyghyp ketui men quanyshy ýshin iygilikti is istegen kezderimiz de kóp. Sonymen qatar qoldan kelgenshe qayyrymdylyq sharalaryn da jasaudy esten shygharmaymyz. Dinimiz músylman, Payghambardyng ýmmeti bolghan song Alla jolyndaghy adamdardyng múqtajyna qaray jәrdem beremiz. Mәselen, Astanadaghy qyzdar medresesine ay sayyn 200 AQSh dollar kólemindegi kómek atap túramyn. Jәne Qúrban ait, Oraza ait sekilidi merekelerde as-tamam berip, hal-qadirimizshe dastarqan jayatynymyz da bar. Áriyne, búnyng bәrin maqtan retinde aityp otyrudan aulaqpyz, músylman balasy bolghan song sauapty is isteudi úmytpayyq degen oidan tuyndaghan dýniyeler ghoy. 

– Ángimenizding basynda elimizdegi әr aimaqtardy aralap emdeu jasaghanynyzdy aityp qaldynyz, búl sapar qalay tuyndap edi, әlde jergilikti oryndar arnayy shaqyrdy ma?

–  Búl Astanadaghy dәrigerlik ortalyghymyzgha kelip emdelgen adamdardyng úsynystary boyynsha jasalghan sapar edi. Ózderi sәtti daualanyp, auruynan jazylghan kisiler «auylymyzda emdeluge qoly jetpey, ýlken qalalargha kele almay jýrgen talay adam bar, mýmkin bolsa siz baryp solardy qarap berseniz, biz bәrin jinap, bir jerden emdeluge jaghday jasasaq» dep shaqyrdy. Sodan aimaqtargha arnayy bardym. 

Alghashynda Qyzylordanyng Aral audanyna on kýndik emdeu saparyn josparlap barghan edim. Alayda ol jerdegi dertine daua izdep aghylghan halyqtyng kóptigi sonday, on kýn emes, 6 ay boyy Aralda qalugha tura keldi. Qúdaygha shýkir, jasaghan emimiz shipa bolghan adamdardy kórgende qiyp kete almaysyn, solardyng auruynan aiyqqanyn kórip quanasyn. 

Qazirge deyin bizding ortalyqtan  Resey, Germaniya, Ukraina sekildi Europa elderinen tartyp, 17 memleketten kelgen adamdar emdelgen eken.  Bir aita keterligi biz jaqyn kýnderden beri osynday alystan kelip emdeletin adamdargha ynghayly jatyn oryndar dayyndadyq. Keybir erekshe jaghdaydaghy nauqastargha mәselen, kólik apatyna úshyraghan nemese úzaq uaqyt tósekke tanylyp jatqan adamdardy tegin emdep, tamaqtandyryp otyrghan kýnderimiz boldy. Al, Qazaqstannyng әr ónirinen, audan, auyldarynan bizge kelip emdelgen adamdardy kóptep keziktiruge bolady. Osyghan qarap enbeginning esh ketpey, jasaghan qyzmetinnin, qoldanghan emderimizding dimkas jandardyng nauqasyna shipa bolyp jatqanyna shyn quanasyn, tәube deysin. 

– Qazirgi kýni Qytaydan kelip, medisinalyq emdeu oryndaryn ashyp jatqan әriptesteriniz turaly ne aitasyz. Olarmen qarymqatynastarynyz qalay?

– Óz eline kelip, medisinamen shúghyldanyp jatqan әriptesterimizding qatary barshylyq. Búlardyng birazy qújat jaghynan qiyndyqtar kórip otyrghany da jasyryn emes. Biraq, olardyng kóbi óz mamandyqtaryn el iygiligine jaratyp, medisina salasynda, halyqty emdeu baghytynda nәtiyjeli júmystar atqaruda. Ár kim óz shamasynsha enbek etip jatyr. IYә, keyde «qytaydan kelgenderding bәri dәriger bolyp ketti» degen pikirler aitylyp qalady. Biraq men olay demes edim. Sebebi, dәriger bolu ekining birining qolynan kele beretin júmys emes. Ol eng bastysy adam ómirin arqalaytyn ýlken jauapty qyzmet. Sondyqtan búl salada ózine sengen, bilim-biligi bar maman ghana júmys isteydi. 

Men osy salada qyzmet etip jatqan óz әriptesterime qoldau kórsetkim keledi. Eger olardyng júmysy elding kónilinen shyghyp, halyqtyng densaulyghyn týzeuge atsalysyp jatsa olargha nege dem bermeuimiz kerek? Ár dәriger óz aldyna kelgen nauqasty emdeydi. Jәne biz bir-birimizben bәsekelestik ornatpay, ózara qoldau baghytynda enbek etuimiz tiyis. 

Qazir de bir-birimizde joq dәri-dәrmekti tolyqtyryp, nauqastardyng jaghdayyna qaray basqa ortalyqtaghy әriptesterimizge jiberip, ózara selbestik túrghyda júmys atqaryp jýrmiz. Keyde tәjiriybe almastyru ýshin bas qosyp, kenesemiz, mereke-meyramdarda beyresmy kezdesuler úiymdastyramyz, qysqasy ózara qoldau kórsetu baghytynda tyghyz qarym-qatynastamyz. 

– Sizderge kelgen nauqastardyng jay-kýiine qarap, Qazaqstan halqyn kóbine qanday auru týri mazalaydy degen súraqqa jauap tabugha bolatynday. Emdeuding qanday týrlerin jii qoldanasyzdar?

– Bizde emdeu týrleri birshama ken.  Sonyng ishinde sozylmaly aurular, qan qysymynan keyin insulit alyp jatyp qalghan nauqastar, qan qysymy týspeytin adamdar, qantty diabet, asqazan aurulary, ót tolu jәne eki adamnyng biri úiqy bezi aurulary halyq arasynda óte kóp. Jәne búnday nauqastardyng denin qúdaygha shýkir sәtti emdep jatyrmyz dep úyalmay aitugha bolady. 

Sonymen qatar ishki qúrylys, bauyr, býirekke tas tolu, asqazan jaralary, buyn aurulary, sal bolyp qalghan, belining shersheui (gryja) ósken nauqastardy, midaghy qan tamyrlardyng jinishkeru, sozylu arqyly kelgen nerv harakterli aurular kóp emdeledi jәne olargha jasaghan shipanyng ónimi de jasqy bolyp jatady. 

Operasiya jasalugha tiyis auru týrlerin eshbir pyshaq jýzin tiygizbey iyne qoiy, shóp dәri beru, massaj arqyly emdep shygharamyz. Sonday-aq bizde qoyylatyn sistemany ózimiz qúramyn bayytyp, janasha jasaghan sistema deuge bolady. Ol kóbine qany qoilanyp, qan qúramyndaghy týrli elementterding tepe-tendigi búzylu saldarynan kelip shyqqan jýrek aurularyn daualaymyz. 

– Shóp dәrilerdi qalay dayyndaysyzdar?

–  Shóp dәrilerding dayyn týrlerin arnauly satyp alamyz da, ony әr nauqastynyng jaghdayyna qaray dozasyn tenshey otyra paydalanamyz. Negizinen biz tamyr ústau arqyly diagnoz qoyamyz. 

– Osy tamyr ústau turaly sәl kenirek aita otyrsanyz, onyng qanday artyqshylyqtary bar? Keyde tamyr ústap aurudy aiyrugha senbey jatatyndar bolady?

– Tamyr ústau tereng ghylym deuge bolady. Tamyrdyng soghuynyng ózi birneshe týrge bólinedi. Mәselen, tez soghu, bayau soghu, ekpindi soghu, artqa tartyp soghu deytin týrleri bar. Jәne tamyrdy ústaghandaghy onyng ornyn dәl anyqtau bar. Yaghni, tamyrdy әr túsynan ústaghanda olardyng belgi beruine qarap ishki qúrylys aghzalarynyng qaysysynda qanday auru baryn, qay aghazanyng júmysy qanday dengeyde ekenin biluge bolady. 

Tamyr arqyly diagnoz qoidyng taghy bir artyqshylyghy kelen nauqas kezekke túryp týrli analiz tapsyryp jýrmeydi, arnauly apparatqa týsip, qan tapsyryp әurelenuding de qajeti joq. Kóptegen arbagha tanylyp, tayaq ústap kelgen adamdardyng auyrghan jerine, jansyz dene mýshelerine iyne shanshyp, ukol qoiy arqyly olardy tez túrghyzyp jiberemiz. 

Jalpy istep jatqan júmystyng reti osynday, auru jandardyng emine shipa bolyp, az da bolsa ónimdi júmys istep jatqanymyz babalarymyz jolyn salyp ketken qazaq dәrigerligin úshtastyra júmys jasaghanymyzdan dep oilaymyn. Biz osy salany tereng zerttep, býgingi medisinamen qatar tolyqtyryp, damytugha nazar audarsaq memdisinamyz jaqsy nәtiyjelerge jetedi dep senemin. 

Sondyqtan Qazaqstanda da qazaq dәrigerligi ýshin arnauly zertteu ortalyghyn úiymdastyryp, jogharghy oqu oryndarynda mamandar dayyndaytyn bólim, tipti keleshekte qytaydaghy sekildi jogharghy oqu ornyn ashsa da artyq bolmas edi. Búl júmystar aldaghy uaqytta óz jýiesin tabady dep ýmit etemiz jәne óz basym soghan atsalysugha dayynmyn.

–  Ángimeniz ýshin rahmet!

 Súhbattasqan Múrat Almasbekúly, Astana  

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