– Mәmbet agha, Alash orda tarihyn jetik biletin adamsyz. Qabyrghaly qazaqtyng jar­ty­synan astamy opat bolghan ótken ghasyrdyng 1921 jәne 32 jyldary aralyghynda bol­ghan ashtyq, odan keyin iyisi qazaqtyng qaymaghyn sypyryp ketken 37 jylghy qughyn-sýrgin ke­ze­ni sizge tanys.Qughyn-sýrgin degende biz kó­bi­­ne sayasy kózqarasy qyzyl imperiyagha qayshy kelgen ziyalylarymyzdyng japa shek­kenin eske alamyz. Ol kezde qyzyldardyng qyryna tek biy­lik tútqasyn ústaghandar ghana emes, aghartu­shylyq jolda jýrgen ghalymdar da úshyrady emes pe?

– Mәmbet agha, Alash orda tarihyn jetik biletin adamsyz. Qabyrghaly qazaqtyng jar­ty­synan astamy opat bolghan ótken ghasyrdyng 1921 jәne 32 jyldary aralyghynda bol­ghan ashtyq, odan keyin iyisi qazaqtyng qaymaghyn sypyryp ketken 37 jylghy qughyn-sýrgin ke­ze­ni sizge tanys.Qughyn-sýrgin degende biz kó­bi­­ne sayasy kózqarasy qyzyl imperiyagha qayshy kelgen ziyalylarymyzdyng japa shek­kenin eske alamyz. Ol kezde qyzyldardyng qyryna tek biy­lik tútqasyn ústaghandar ghana emes, aghartu­shylyq jolda jýrgen ghalymdar da úshyrady emes pe?
– IYә, onyng ras. Jalpy, repressiya ta­rihy – auqymdy taqyryp. Onyng týrli ba­ghytta­ry, salalary bar. Biz sony salalap zert­te­genimiz jón. Mәselen, repressiyanyng ashyl­may jýrgen bir baghyty – biylikting gha­lymdardy qudalauy. Búl rette auyzgha al­dymen HH ghasyrdaghy últtyq ghylym baghyt­tarynyng negizin qalaushy Alash ziyalylary oralady. Kenestik biylik olargha baylanys­ty repressiya jýrgizgen uaqytynda ziyalylar­dy ghalym retinde emes, sayasy kózqarastary ýshin qudalady. 30-jyldary janadan qalyptasyp kele jatqan últ ziyalylarynyng qyzmeti men mindeti prinsiptik ózgeristerge úshyrady. Qazaq qoghamynyng qanday baghytta damuy men mazmúnyn anyqtau kenestik biylikting qoly­­na kóshti. Qazaq ziyalylary HH ghasyrdyng ba­synda osy mindetterdi ózderi atqarugha ty­rys­ty, bi­raq búl mindetten olar birjola yghys­ty­ryl­dy. Reformalau jәne onyng maz­múnyn bel­gileude biylikke tartylghan qazaq aza­mat­taryna tek oryndaushylyq mindet jýk­teldi. Osyny týsingen Alash ziyalylary endigi jer­de tek aghartushylyqpen ainalysu­gha, ghylym­gha den qoigha mәjbýr bolyp, ózde­rin osy sa­lada tanytugha tyrysty. Óitkeni olar­gha mem­le­kettik basqaru isinde óz qabiletterin ta­nytugha birjola shek qoyyldy. Patshalyq biylik se­kildi kenestik biylikte de ziyalylardyng kóz­qarastaryn separatistik dep baghalady.

 1917 jyly jeltoqsanda ótken II jalpy­qazaq sezi oqu aghartu komissiyasyn qúrdy. Tóraghasy bolyp A.Baytúrsynúly bekitildi, onyng qúramyna M.Dulatov, M.Júmabaev, T.Shonanov syndy túlghalar kirdi. Sonda qabyldanghan baghdarlama boyynsha endigi jerde oqulyq jazu mәselesi kýn tәrtibinde túrdy jәne jazdy da.
Aghartushylyqtyng negizgi qyzmeti – últ­tyq dýniyetanymdy, sanany, biregeylikti qa­lyptastyru. Últ ziyalylary jazghan oqu­lyqtary arqyly últty oyatugha, kókeyine oy salugha, týrtki jasaugha úmtyldy. Repressiya Qazaqstangha ghana emes, jalpy, Odaqqa tәn qúbylys. Mәselen, Reseyding ózinde ghalym­dardy qudalau 20-jyldary bastaldy. Osy jyldary Leningradta bir top orys ghaly­­my ústaldy. Búl – Reseydegi «akademiyalyq is­tin» bastamasy. Sol repressiyanyng qúrbanda­­ry akademik S.Platonov, E.Tarle, N. Lihachev, M. Lubavskiy siyaqty kórnekti ghalymdar edi. Repressiya Leningradta 1929 jyly basta­lyp, «akademiyalyq is» boyynsha 100-den astam adam abaqtygha jabyldy. Bir aita keterligi – Reseydegi repressiyanyng óz baghyty, maz­múny boldy. Mysaly, S.F. Platonovqa: «Qa­zan revolusiyasyn, sosialistik iydeyany qabyldamadyn, patshalyq monarhiyalyq qúrylysty jaqtaysyn» degen aiyp taghyldy. Yaghny ghalymdar bolsheviktik ústanymdy qabyldauy kerek boldy. Beytarap qalghan ghalymdardy biylik ózine qarsy kýsh dep ta­nydy. Osylaysha repressiya Reseyde ti­keley par­tiyalyq taptyq kózqaras túrghysynan jýrdi.
– Al bizde qalay boldy?
– Qazaqstanda qudalau basqasha sipatta jýrgizildi. Qazaq ghalymdarynan da bolishe­viktik kózqarasty qabyldau talap etildi, sonymen qosa «burjuaziyalyq últshyldyq kózqarastasyng dep, sonday-aq qazaq últ­shyl­dary» dep aiyptady. 30-jyldary rep­ressiya qúr­bandary bolghan ghalymdardyng biri hәm biregeyi – filolog ghalym Qúdaybergen Quan­úly Júbanov. Ghalymdy B.Qarataevtyng iz­ba­sary, inisi dep ataugha bolady. Q. Júbanov­­tyng qatarlastary 20-jyldardyng ayaghyna ta­man el isine aralasa bastaydy. Búl buyn aldyn­ghy buyn aghalardyng yqpalynda qalyptasty. Q.Júbanov qatarlastary sol kezde jaryq kórgen qazaq gazetterin oqyp ósti. Ásirese, olargha «Qazaq» gazetining әseri ýlken boldy. Ghalym «Kósem» gazeti men «Tez» degen qol­jazba jurnalyn shyghardy. Tergeu material­darynda Q.Júbanovtyng shygharghan gazette­­rin últshyldyq sipatta, jastargha burjuaziya­­lyq kózqarasty nasihattady dep aiyp ta­ghylghan.
1930 jyldary Q.Júbanovtyng Últtyq tildi jana sapagha kóteru, әkimshilik jәne ghylymy tilge ainaldyru arqyly jalpyúlt­tyq mýddege qyzmet etuge degen úmtylysy bay­qalady. Ghalym sayasy qyzmetpen aina­lyspaghanyna qaramastan 1937 jyly 19 qa­rashada qamaugha alynady. NKVD ofiyseri­ning dayyndaghan qaulysynda «Q.Júbanovtyng belgili dәrejede qúndy bolyp tabylatyn jeke kitaphanasy bar. Sondyqtan oghan tәn kitaptardyng bәri de sot sheshimine deyin NKVD-nyng komendaturasyna tapsyryl­-syn» delingen. Múnymen qatar tintu kezin­de 12 jazu dәpteri men bir buma týrli qoljazba alynghan.  
– Tek Júbanov qana emes, ózgede «elim, jerim» degen ghalymdar týrli sebeptermen qudalandy, abaqtygha qamaldy emes pe?
– 110/20 tergeu isi boyynsha «qazaq últ­shyl­dary» degen jeleumen J. Súltanbekov, T.Shonanov, T.Jýrgenov syndy últ qay­ratkerleri jauapqa tartyldy. Teljan Sho­nanovty Mirzoyangha qazaq tilin oqytatyn oqytushy etip bekitip, Mirzoyandy óltirudi oilaghan degen aiyp taghylghan. Múny jasaghan kontrrevolusiyalyq ústanymdaghy qazaq ziyalylary. Yaghny Shonanov óz әieli Qazaq memlekettik uniyversiytetining studenti Shah­zada Shonanovany paydalanyp, uniy­ver­siytette órt úiymdastyrdy degen. Shahzada Shonanova Baqytjan Qarataevtyng inisi Asqar Qarataevtyng qyzy. Alghashqy joldasy Ydyrys Mústambaev bolghan. Uniyversiytet laboratoriyasyn órtemek boldyng degen aiyppen sottalghan. Órt 1935 jyly 20-21 qazanda bolghan. Tergeu qújattarynda órtti úiymdastyrugha Q. Júbanov ta qatynasty delinedi. Aqiqatyn aitar bolsaq, Q. Júbanov siyaqty ghalymdardyng jauapqa tartyluy logikalyq túrghydan negizsiz, qylmysyn dә­leldeytin birde-bir derek joq. Soghan bay­lanysty 1957 jyly 8 aqpanda Kenester Od­a­ghy Jogharghy sotynyng әskery kollegiyasy ghalymnyng isin qarap, oghan taghylghan aiypty jala dep tanidy. 30-jyldary aghartushy­lyq, eldik ústanymdaghy ghalymdargha jasalghan shabuyldyng búl bir ghana kórinisi.
Qazaqstandaghy repressiyanyng bir erek­sheligi – qudalau permanentti, yaghny ýzilissiz jýrdi. Birde ashyq, birde jabyq kýiinde ýz­diksiz jalghasqan qudalau 1920 jyldary bas­talyp, 1990 jylgha deyin sozyldy. Osy ara­lyqta talay qazaqtyng arda azamattary ja­zyqsyz japa shekti. Qamaldy, atyldy, it jekkenge aidaldy. Negizsiz jala jabylyp ús­talghandardyng biri – tikeley Goloshekiyn­ning tapsyrmasy boyynsha 1933 jyly Mәskeuge komandirovka barysynda ústalghan qazaq qayratkeri Ydyrys Mústambaev edi. Alma­tygha alyp kelgennen keyin tergeu júmysy bastalady. Oghan «Týrik halyq partiya­syn qúrdyn» degen aiyp taghylady. Partiya­nyng maqsaty – tәuelsiz Túran memleketin qúru dep kórsetiledi.Taghy bir qudalanghan adam – Esmaghambet Ismailov әdebiyettanushy gha­lym retinde tanymal. Qazirgi M.Áuezov atyn­daghy Ádebiyet jәne óner institutynda ghyly­my qyzmetker bolghan. E.Ismailovtyng alghash tútqyndalghan jyl – 1933. «Týrik halyq par­tiyasyn» qúrugha qatysty degen aiyp taghyl­ghanymen, ol dәleldenbegendikten qayta­dan bosatylady.
1933 jyly ústalghan ziyalylargha olar is­temegen isti moyyndatu ýshin OGPU tergeu­shileri týrli jauyz әdister qoldanghan. Ol turaly Isa Toqtybaev jazghan. Onyng ózi de 1933 jyly Mәskeude әskery akademiyada múghalimdik qyzmet atqaryp jýrip «ústal­ghandardyn» biri. Osy jyly nege belsendi qayratkerler ústaldy degenge kelsek, búl Goloshekinning әdeyi jasaghan isi edi. Óitkeni 1931-33 jyldardaghy Goloshekin óz qateligi­nen bolghan ashtyqtyng sebebin qazaq ziya­ly­laryna jaba saludy kózdedi. Isa Toqtybaev 1933-54 jyldar aralyghynda ýzdiksiz quda­lauda jýrdi. Atylmady, aman qaldy, biraq ómirining kóp bóligi qughynda ótti. Keyin Stalin qaytys bolghannan keyin OGPU ter­geushilerining tútqyngha alynghan jazyq­syz­dardy qalay qudalaghany jóninde jazdy. «Osy rette OGPU tergeushilerining jasaghan mynaday bir jaghdaydy eskertuge tiyistimin. Sol tústaghy búl mekeme tergeushileri «adam bolsa bolghany, al oghan tanylatyn is taby­lady» degen ústanymdy basshylyqqa aldy. Repressiya qúrbandary múny jaqsy biledi. Qazaqstan OGPU-NKVD tergeuleri úiym­dastyrghan 1933-1954 jyldary basynan-ayaghyna deyin jýrip ótken túlghalardyng biri osy – Isa Toqtybaev. Ol F.Goloshekin ústa­nymdaryna ashyq qarsylyq kórsetken. Ony tútqyndau turaly OGPU oryndaryna tap­syrys bergen Goloshekin bolatyn. Respub­likada qate jýrgizilgen sayasattyng kesiri­nen ashtyqqa úshyratqan óz kinәsin oppozisiya­lyq kýshterge audaryp saludy kózdedi. Al Isa Toqtybaevtyng tikeley ózine «basqa kórshi elderge aua kóshken qazaqtardyng kóshin úiymdastyrdyn» degen aiyp tanyldy. Búl jóninde IY.Toqtybaev 1956 jyly Kenester Odaghy kommunistik partiyasynyng HH se­zining prezidiumyna joldaghan shaghymyn­da: «Kәri myljyn, maqtanshaq F.Goloshekiyn­ning aituy boyynsha tergeushilerding maghan taq­qan aiyby býtindey jala bolatyn. Qazaqtar­dyng Qazaqstannan tys elderge kóshuin úiym­das­tyrdyng degen kinә oidan shygharylghan. Men eshqashan da jәne eshqanday jerde Qa­zaqstannan basqa ónirlerge qazaqtardyng kóship ketuin úiymdastyrghan emespin. Men búl isti qalay atqarmaqpyn, eger qazaqtar­dyng basqa elderge aua kóshui kezinde Leningrad qalasynda túryp, Qazaqstan territoriyasy­na ayaq baspaghan bolsam?», – deydi. OGPU tergeushilerining joq jerden «qamaugha alyn­dyng ba kinәlisin, kinәli bolmasang bolasyn» dep qoqan-loqy jasap otyrghan.
– «Bolmaghandy boldy» dep ýrkite otyryp qol qoydyryp alu, qyzyl imperiyanyng kәnigi әdisi emes pe?
– 1950 jyldary jýrgizilgen qudalau saya­saty tarihshylardy da ainalyp ótpedi.
E.Bek­­ma­hanov, B.Sýleymenov syndy qay­ratker­ler qazaqtan shyqqan túnghysh kәsiby tarihshy­lar bolatyn. Alghashqy buyn tariyh­shylardyng boyynan últ tarihyn jazugha de­gen qúlshy­nysty anyq bayqaysyn. Olar qazaq tariy­hyn obektivti, ghylymy túrghydan qorytugha tyrysty. Biraq ol kezdegi biylik olardyng búl qyzmetin últshyldyq dep ba­ghalady. B.Sý­leymenov E.Bekmahanovtan 48 kýn búryn ústalghan, búl – tarihshylardan Bekmahanov qana qughyngha úshyraghan degen jansaq pikirdi joqqa shygharady.
Tergeu materialdarynan bayqalatyny – osy eki tarihshynyng tegine qatty «ýni­letindikteri». E.Bekmahanovty hannyng tú­qymy dese, B.Sýleymenovti baydyng balasy dep kórsetedi. Tarihy derekter B.Sýley­menovting әkesi 5 jasynda sýzekten, anasyn 8 jasynda belgisiz bireuler óltirip (әkesi ól­gen song jastay qalghan sheshesin әmenger­lik salty boyynsha ózgege qospaq bolady, búghan kelispegen anasyn attyng qúiryghyna bay­lap óltirgen) qaytys bolady. Osy tarihshylargha baylanysty tergeu júmystarynyng әdildik izdeu emes, qaytken kýnde de kinә taghu maq­sa­tymen jýrgizilgen. B.Sýleymenov qaysar, ójet azamat edi. Ashuy kelgen tústa tergeushini astyndaghy oryndyqpen úrghan. Ol ekining birining qolynan kele bermes nәrse. Sotta óz kinәsining joqtyghyn ashyq aitady. Áriyne, biz tilge tiyek etken bir-ekili ghana ghalym adam-­dar. Tize bersek kóp qoy. Sol qyzyl imperiya­nyng qyryna iligip, qughyn-sýrginning qúrbany bolghan, jazyqsyz japa shekken arystary­myzdy ardaqtap, halyqtyng esine salyp, dәriptep otyru – bizding hәm keler úrpaqtyng paryzy.

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