- Abaytanu pәni jana oqu jylynan bastap mektepterge engizilgeli jatyr eken, osy mәsele turaly ne aitasyz?

- Abaytanu pәni jana oqu jylynan bastap mektepterge engizilgeli jatyr eken, osy mәsele turaly ne aitasyz?
- «Abaytanu» pәni búryndary mektepterde oqushylardyng qalauy boyynsha oqytylatyn fakulitativti pәn bolatyn. Búny da algha basudyng bir kórinisi dep qaradyq. Abaytanu pәnining jana baghdarlama boyynsha oqulyghy jazylyp, hrestomatiyasy dayarlanyp, aldyn ala dayarlyqpen endirilse jón bolar edi. Biraq búghan kýmәnim bar. Óitkeni, biz abaytanu turaly M.Áuezov úsynghan tanymdy týbirimen ózgertip, kenestik iydeologiyanyng talabyna sәikestendirgen bolatynbyz. Áuezovtyng tanymynda Abaydyng dýniyetanymy ýsh ruhany búlaqtan qúralatyn. Olar qazaq halqynyng ruhany әlemi, Shyghystyng ruhany qazynasy jәne Batystyng әdeby әlemi bolatyn. Osy tanymnan biz batystyq әlemdi sheshushi buyn retinde alyp, býkil ghylymiy-zertteu júmystary men mektep jәne jogharghy oqu oryndaryna arnalghan oqulyqtarda basshylyqqa aldyq. Búnyng bәri de kenestik iydeologiyanyng talabynan tuyndap jatqan qúbylystar bolatyn. Shyn mәninde qaraytyn bolsaq, Abaydyng dýniyetanymy onyng otyz jasyna deyin-aq tolyq qalyptasyp qoyghan edi. Búl orys tilin endi ýirene bastaghan kez edi. Abay orys tilin aqyndyqqa qúlay búrylghan uaqytta, yaghny qyryq jasynan bastap tereng mengere bastady. Osy sebepti otyz jasqa deyin qalyptasqan dýniyetanymy tónkerile búzylyp ketken joq. Kóp nәrsege Abay osy tanym túrghysynan qaraghan bolatyn. Sondyqtan da Abaydyng Shyghysqa qatynasy turaly M.Áuezov Abaydyng Batysynan Shyghysy basym, ol Batysqa barghanda Shyghysqa arqa tirep, óz oiyn sol túrghydan aitatyn degen baylam úsynghan bolatyn. Osy baylamy ýshin biz Áuezovty ómirden ótkenshe qatty syngha alghan bolatynbyz. Áuezovtyng búl tanymy 1982 jyly «Múhtar Áuezov jәne Abaytanu problemalary» degen ghylymy monografiya jaryqqa shyqqannan keyin ghana ózgere bastady. Yaghni, Abaydyng dýniyetanymy qalyptasqan ruhany ýsh búlaghy turaly shyndyq bastapqy qalpyna kele bastady. Biraq qazirgi mektep pen jogharghy oqu oryndaryna arnalghan abaytanu turaly jazylghan enbekter býginge deyin sol ýshinshi ruhany qazyna kózining sarynymen ketip jatyr. Mysaly, 2008 jylghy 10-synypqa arnalghan qazaq әdebiyeti oqulyghynda Abaydyng Shyghysqa qatysy turaly bir auyz sózding bolmauy - osynyng aighaghy.

Abaytanu pәni jana oqu jylynan bastap mektepterge engiziletin bolsa, onyng oqulyghy men baghdarlamasy boluy kerek. Mening shamalauymsha, sol oqulyq pen baghdarlama bola qalghannyng ózinde sol eski sarynnan qútyla almaghan bolar dep oilaymyn. Búl jaqsy bastama bolghanmenen Abay dýniyetanymynyng ózekti jelisine ainalghan Abaydyng Shyghysqa qatysy turaly mәsele taghy da sóz etilmey, tasada qalatyn tәrizdi.

- Pәndi mektep baghdarlamasyna engizu qashan qolgha alyndy?
- Abaytanudy mektep baghdarlamasyna pәn retinde engizu mәselesi 2002 jyly arnayy sóz bolghan edi. Búl baghdarlamany 1-synyp pen 10-synypqa deyingi kezendegi baghdarlama retinde Talghar qazaq mektebining oqytushysy Núrghanat Kerimbaev úsynghan edi. Búl resmy týrde bekitilmey qalghan bolatyn. Búnyng ornyna Dosym Omarovtyng krishnaidtyq tanym negizindegi «Úlylar ýndestigi» dep atalatyn enbegining negizinde jazylghan «Abaytanu» oqulyghy Ministrlikting qoldauymen mektepterge endirilgen bolatyn. Biraq ol oqulyq turaly baspasózde qatty synalyp, Ministrlikting ózi búiryq berip, qoldanudan alyp tastady. Keybir mektepterde abaytanudy pәn retinde oqytu 2003-2004 jyldary әr jerde bir qylang berip jatty. Biraq týpkilikti sheshimin әli kýnge deyin taba almay kele jatyr.

- El arasynda «mektep oqushylarynan adamgershilik, tәrtip ketti» degen pikir jii aitylady. Meninshe, Abaytanu pәnin engizudegi maqsat osynday keri qúbylystyng bolmauyn, balalardy qazaq ruhaniyatymen susyndatudan tughan bolar. Siz qalay oilaysyz?
- Batystyng minez-qúlqyndaghy keri ketken merez bizding jastardyng minez-qúlqyna әser etip jatqany ótirik emes, shyndyq. Osy keri qúbylystan qútyludyng ruhany joly Abaydyng әdeby múrasy dep tapqandyqtan, ministrlik Abaytanu pәnin úsynyp otyrghan tәrizdi. Búl әreketi - dúrys әreket, bayandy әreket.

Mening pikirimshe, Qazaqstannyng qoghamdyq ghylymdar salasy men aghartushylyq mәselesi de kenestik dәuirden bastap birjolata europalyq qalypqa týskeni jasyryn emes, shyndyq. Osy sebepti barlyq oqulyqtarymyz ben tәlim-tәrbie júmystarynyng týrlerin de osy europalyq qalypqa týsirdik. Oi-sanamyz da osy túrghydan qalyptasty. 1991 jyldan bastap tәuelsizdik tuyn qolgha ústaghanymyzben bizding aqyl, oi-sanamyz, dýniyetanymymyz búrynghy qalyptasqan europalyq modeliden auytqymay kele jatyr. Búl bizding últtyq ruhany sanamyzdy tәuelsizdik jolyna búrugha, sol jolda últtyq, shyghystyq qalypqa týsuimizge meylinshe kedergi bolyp, ayaghymyzdy erkin kósiluge jol bermey kele jatyr. Ýshinshi mynjyldyq adamgershiliktin, gumanizmning zamany bolugha tiyis. Eger biz, shyn mәninde, tәuelsiz memleket bolatyn bolsaq, tәuelsiz memleketting tәuelsiz dýniyetanymy bolmaghy kerek. Uaqyt osyny talap etip otyr. Sondyqtan uaqyt talabyna oray biz eski shapanymyzdy sheship tastap, últtyq shapanymyzdy kiyetin uaqyt keldi. Yaghni, búnyng maghynasy biz eskirgen, qasandanghan europalyq modeliden mýlde týbirimen janarghan últtyq shyghystyq modelige bet aluymyz kerek. Bir sózben aitqanda, qoghamdyq ghylymdar salasy, tәlim-tәrbie jýiesin berip otyrghan pedagogikalyq ghylym salasy ózining keleshekte jýretin jolyn, yaghni, relisin auystyruy kerek. Onsyz biz tura joldy taba almaymyz.
Al, endi oqushylardyng adamgershilik tәrtibin jolgha qong ýshin mektepte Abaydyng «tolyq adam» ilimin óz aldyna pәn retinde endirip, adamgershilikting iydeologiyasyn olardyng sanasyna birtindep sindirudi maqsat etip qon kerek. Bir sózben aitqanda, abaytanudaghy seng búzyluy kerek. Ol senning búzyluynyng kórinisi qazirgi kýnde Abay atyndaghy uniyversiytette. Onda Abaytanu ghylymiy-zertteu ortalyghy qúrylyp, barlyq fakulitetterde abaytanu pәni arnayy kurs retinde oqytylyp otyr. Ol ýshin arnayy oqulyq jazylyp, arnayy baghdarlama jasalyp, osyghan qosa, hrestomatiyasy da berilip otyr. Jastar arasynda minez-qúlyqtyng búzyluy, batystyq merez auruyna úshyraghan minez-qúlyqtaghy júqsyz qylyqtarynyng jastardy shyrmay bastauy bizdi qatty oilandyryp otyr. Osyghan jol bermeu ýshin jastarymyzdyng jaghymsyz әreketten boyyn aulaq ústau ýshin, oghan qarsy kýresting qúraly Abaydyng «tolyq adam» turaly ilimine keng óris beretin zaman tudy. Abaytanudaghy evrosentristik tanymdaghy búrynghy oqulyqtardaghy eskirgen tanymnyng ornyna endi ghylymgha negizdelgen, últtyq jәne shyghystyq baghyttan tuyndaghan Abaydyng «tolyq adam» ilimine negizdelgen jana tiptegi oqulyqtar úsynyluy kerek. Biraq Ministrlikting qazirgi mektepterge oqugha úsynyp otyrghan Abaytanu pәninde búl tanym joq. Ol әli de eski tanymdaghy Abaytanudyng sonynan shygha almay otyrghany - anyq nәrse. Keleli kenes qúryp, kópshilikting kózin jetkizip, dәleldengen jana tanymdaghy oqulyqty ghana biz týsinuimiz kerek. Oghan bizding Ministrlikting dayarlyghy joq dep ashyq aita alamyz. Eger ministrlik, shyn mәnimen, osy mәseleni qolgha alatyn bolsa, abaytanu oqulyghyn últtyq shyghystyq tanymdaghy jana dýniyetanymgha negizdelgen jana oqulyqty úsynugha dayarlyqtan ótui kerek. Onsyz búl salada ózgeris bolmaydy, bolugha negiz de joq.

- Mektepte adamy qúndylyqtardy arttyru ýshin taghy ne isteuge bolady. Bәlkim, dәris berudin, tәrbie isin jýrgizuding jana formasyn oilap tabu kerek shyghar?
- Mektepte adamy qúndylyqtardy arttyrudyng irgetasy ózimizding últtyq-shyghystyq halqymyzda jatyr. Osy túrghydan kelip, Abaytanudyng jana oqulyghy men baghdarlamasyn dayarlau arqyly jas úrpaqty adamgershilik negizine úiyta alamyz. Dәris berudin, tәrbie isin jýrgizuding barlyghy da osy jana tanymgha baghyttaluy qajet bolyp otyr. Osylardy jýzege asyrmay, kózdegen maqsatqa jetuimiz qiyn.

- Olay bolsa, nege Abaytanu pәni engiziledi? Mәselen, shәkәrimtanu, yasauitanu, bolmasa әl-farabitanu emes?
- Abaytanu pәnin ministrlikting tandauy óte oryndy. Óitkeni qazaq halqynyng oi-sanasynyn, dýniyetanymynyng shyny Abaydyng әdeby múrasynda jatyr. Osy sebepti Abaytanu pәnin mektepke endiru shәkәrimtanu, yasauitanu, farabitanudan góri alghy sapta túr. Abaydy tanysaq qana, Shәkәrimdi tanugha da, Yasauidy tanugha da, Farabiydi tanugha da jol ashylady. Abaydy tereng mengermey, olargha erkin dendep kire almaymyz da. Jastardyng adamgershilik minez-qúlqyn, adamy qalpyn qalyptastyruda Abaytanu ilimi irgetasqa ainalyp otyr. Osy sebepti, eng aldymen, Abay múrasyn mengeru, tereng tanyp bilu býgingi kýnning asa qajetti mәselesine ainalyp otyr.

Súhbattasqan Dәuren SEYITJANÚLY,

«Ýsh qiyan» gazeti, 20.08.2009