Maqsút Nәrikbaev: «Halyq pen biylik arasyn jalghaytyn kýsh kerek...»

Almatydaghy Praym plaza ortalyghyndaghy Qayrat Núrtastyng konserti kezinde bolghan oqigha júrtshylyqty týrli oilargha jeteledi. Sayttarda, әsirese әleumettik jelilerde adamdar birneshe topqa bólinip, bireuleri әnshini qoldasa, bireuleri jauapqa tartu qajettigin aitty. Tipti janjal shygharghan jastardyng isi  dúrys dep baghalap, endi biri onyng sebebin syrtqy kýshterden izdedi. Osy orayda zanger, zang ghylymynyng doktory, «Qúqyqtyq Qazaqstan ýshin» qoghamdyq birlestigining jetekshisi, professor Maqsút Súltanúly Nәrikbaevtyng da óz pikiri bar eken.

- Maqsút Súltanúly, Qayrat Núrtastyng konsertining arty sonday ýlken daugha, qaqtyghysqa úlasuynyng sebebi ne dep oilaysyz? Oqighanyng dәl Preziydentting nemeresining ýilenu toyy bolyp jatqan uaqytta boluynyng sayasy astary bar ma?

Maqsút Nәrikbaev: «Halyq pen biylik arasyn jalghaytyn kýsh kerek...»

Almatydaghy Praym plaza ortalyghyndaghy Qayrat Núrtastyng konserti kezinde bolghan oqigha júrtshylyqty týrli oilargha jeteledi. Sayttarda, әsirese әleumettik jelilerde adamdar birneshe topqa bólinip, bireuleri әnshini qoldasa, bireuleri jauapqa tartu qajettigin aitty. Tipti janjal shygharghan jastardyng isi  dúrys dep baghalap, endi biri onyng sebebin syrtqy kýshterden izdedi. Osy orayda zanger, zang ghylymynyng doktory, «Qúqyqtyq Qazaqstan ýshin» qoghamdyq birlestigining jetekshisi, professor Maqsút Súltanúly Nәrikbaevtyng da óz pikiri bar eken.

- Maqsút Súltanúly, Qayrat Núrtastyng konsertining arty sonday ýlken daugha, qaqtyghysqa úlasuynyng sebebi ne dep oilaysyz? Oqighanyng dәl Preziydentting nemeresining ýilenu toyy bolyp jatqan uaqytta boluynyng sayasy astary bar ma?

- Kez-kelgen oqighadan ýlken sayasy astar izdeuding qajeti shamaly dep oilaymyn. Mening oiymsha negizgi kemshilik konsertti úiymdastyrushylar tarapynan bolghangha úqsaydy. Qanday da bir halyqtyq, el kóp jinalatyn sharalardy ótkizu barysynda eng aldymen sol sharagha qatysushy adamdardyng qauipsizdigining saqtaluyna asa mәn beru kerek. Kórermen arasynda ishimdik ishken nemese minez-qúlqy túraqsyz adamdardyng boluy da mýmkin. Sondyqtan olardyng әnshining júmysyna kedergi keltirmeuin jiti qadaghalau kerek.  Kóptegen konsertterde sahna men kórermen arasynda bos jer bolady. Arnayy tәrtip pen qauipsizdikti saqtaushy adamdar kórermenning sahnagha shyghuyna jol bermeydi. Al atalghan konsertte әnning ortasynda –aq adamdar sahnagha shyghyp ketken. Viydeomaterialdardan, aqparat qúraldarynyng jazyp jatqandaryna qaraghanda әnshige әrtýrli zattar laqtyra bastaghan. Men oilaymyn, ol laqtyrylghan zattar әnshige emes, sol sahnagha shyghyp ketken kórermenge baghyttaluy da mýmkin. Endi arnayy organdar onyng aq-qarasyn ajyrata jatar. Biraq biz búl oqighadan ýlken sabaq aluymyz kerek...

- Oiynyzdy órbite týsseniz, osy jaghdaydan qanday qorytyndy jasaugha bolady?

- Eng birinshi oiyma kelgeni, qay qoghamda bolmasyn tynyshtyq pen túraqtylyq óte nәzik jaghdayda bolatynyn úmytpau kerek.  Eger qanday da bir oiy búzyq, pighyly dúrys emes, elimizding túraqtylyghyn búzghysy kelgen kýshter bolsa ýlken silkinister jasau, el tynyshtyghyn býldiru olargha asa qiyngha soqpaytyn siyaqty. Ol ýshin ýlken әleumettik shiyelenis emes, bir tanymal adamdy bayqatpay paydalana salsa da jetip jatyr. Al biri qyzghanyshtan, biri basqa da bir oi-pighylmen, tipti sayasy maqsat qoyyp, biylikke kelu jolynda әreket jasap jatqandar az dep atyta alamyz ba? Ayta almaymyz!

- Iya, shynymen de óz ómirine, túrmys-tirshiligine kónili tolmaytyn, narazy adamdardyng qatary barshylyq. Búl Sizding oiynyzsha biylik jýrgizip otyrghan sayasattyng saldary ma, әlde búl jalpy әlemdik ýrdis pa? Óitkeni dýmpuler bolyp jatqan elder, memleketter qatary da kóbeyip jatyr ghoy?

- Dәl myna faktordan ghana dep aitu qiyn, tipti mýmkin emes. Óitkeni onyng sebepteri de, saldary da aluan týrli. Bir jaghynan eldegi әleumettik jaghdaydyng әli de bolsa kemeline jetpey jatqandyghy, eldi jaylaghan jemqorlyq adamdardyng ertengi kýnine, bolashaghyna degen senimin joghaltatyn birden-bir sebepter. Jemqorlyq kýsheygen qoghamda әdildikting әlsireytini belgili. Ádildik bolmaghan, zang oryndalmaghan, zang aldyndaghy barlyq adamnyng tendigi saqtalmaghan memlekette túraqtylyq pen tynyshtyqtyng patshalyq qúruy mýmkin emes.

Mening bir bayqap jýrgenim, qazir qogham mýshelerining birazynyng  basynda ózining sheshilmegen mәselesi kóp. Qanshama adamnyng tólenbegen nesiyesi bar. Nesie soryp jatqan әr ýy qalaghan tamaghyn iship, qalaghan kiyimin kiyip, qalaghan jaghyna bara almaytyny belgili. Ol da adamnyng ishki qinalysyn tughyzady. Ekinshiden, adamgha qajetti zattar, әsirese tamaqtyng qymbattauyn  aylyq pen zeynetaqy kólemining artuy quyp jete almay jatyr.

Dabyralap jarnamalap jatqan industriyalyq innovasiyanyng jaqsylyghyn qarapayym halyq tolyqqandy kórip otyr ma? Joq. Auyl sharuashylyghy damyp jatyr ma? Óz dengeyinde emes...  Orta jәne shaghyn biznes damyp jatyr ma? Qarqyndy damuda dep eshkim aita almaydy. Osydan baryp, júmyssyzdar qatary azaymay túr.

Bizding halqymyzdyng teng jartysyna juyghy auyldy jerde túrady. Sol segiz milliongha juyq halyqtyng әleumettik jaghdayy janaghy aitalghan sebepterge say kónil tolarlyq emes. Mal sharuashylyghyn damytamyz dedik, bәrin jekege berdik. Al endi ósirgen maldyng etin de, sýtin de púldau onaygha týspey otyr. Sebebi, Kedendik Odaaqqa mýshe elderding tauarlary otandyq ónimge qaraghanda bәsekege qabiletti.   Ol jaqta ónim óndirushilerdi memlekettik qoldau jaqsy jolgha qoyylghan.  Qazaqstanday agrarly memleketke syrttan et, sýt, may, júmyrtqa importtau degen naghyz masqara, úyat nәrse.  Keshe ghana «Tang sholpan» baghdarlamasynda Shynjan almasynyng 80 payyzy Qazaqstangha satylatynyn maqtan etip aityp jatyr.

Taghy bir kýrdeli mәsele - auylda júmys joq, auyl biznesining damuyna qoldau bolmay otyr. Sonyng saldarynan jastardyng kóbi, basym bóligi iri qalalargha, Almaty men Astanagha aghyluda. Al ol iri qalalar ol jastardy júmyspen, baspanamen qamtamasyz etip ýlgermeude. Óitkeni bir jylda jýz adam júmys tapsa, myng adam janadan kelip jatyr. Al júmyssyzdar kóbirek shoghyrlanghan jerde qylmystyng da, búzaqylyqtyng da órshy týsetini belgili.

Sondyqtan biz auyl jastarynyng auylda óz isin ashyp, auylda túraqtanuyna jaghday jasauymyz kerek. Eger osy mәsele sheshilmese jastar qalalargha aghyluyn toqtatpaydy, al onyng arty jaqsylyq emes. Ásirese aulymyzdyng bolashaqta iyesiz qalu qaupi qobaljytady.

Taghy bir aita ketetetin nәrse bizde biznesti, ýlken ónerkәsipti damytudy memlekettik qoldau óte týsiniksiz jýrgiziledi. Áriyne men ekonomist emespin, jay qarapayym adamnyng kózimen qarap oy eleginen ótkizseniz, bizding biznesti qoldauymyz ýlken qarjy júmsap, zor kýsh shygharyp balany dýneiyege әkelip, sosyn qaramay, baqpay tastay salghan ana siyaqty kórinedi. Ýlken zauyt, fabrikalardy milliardttaghan aqsha júmsap salamyz, al onyng ayaghynan túryp, basqa eldermen bәsekege qabiletti etuge jaghday jasamaymyz. Múnyng bәri ainalyp kelgende el ekonomikasynyng damuyn tejep, elding әleumettik jaghdayynyng nasharlauyna әkelip soghady. Al ol jaghdaylar, halyqtyng narazylyghyn, ókpe-renishin tughyzady.

- El ishinde baylar men kedeylerding ara qatynasy da alshaqtap barady ghoy. Bireuler tym bay, al kópshilik kedey... Osy da ýlken mәselening biri ghoy?

Naryqtyq ekonomikany memleket negizi retinde moyyndaghannan keyi,  sol jolgha jaltaqtamay bet alghannan keyin, bay-kedey dep bóludi toqtatu kerek. Eng qajettisi, baydyng bay boluy, bay bolghannan keyingi  is-әreketi qoghamdaghy zang shenberinde zandylyq  túrghyda boluy tiyis.

Jogharyda atap ótkenimdey  zang oryndalmay, әdilettik bolmay qalghan kezde narazylyq kýsheyedi. Bizde zandy kim oryndamaydy? Qolynda biyligi, shotynda aqshasy bar adamdar. Aqshasy bar adam kisi óltirse de sottalmay jatsa, lauazymy bar adamdar milliardttap qarjy jymqyryp jatsa, endi bireuler ipotekegha pәter alyp, onyng aqshasyn qúya almay jatqanda endi bireuler zansyz jolmen tapqan aqshasyna zәulim saraylar túrghyzyp jatsa, bireuler jany qinalmay milliondap ailyq alyp, endi bireuler taban aqy, manday terining ótemin ala almasa qoghamda qanday túraqtylyq pen tynyshtyq boluy mýmkin?

- Iya, shynymen de aita bersek qoghamdaghy qayshylyqtardy aityp tauysa almaymyz. Endi odan shyghar jol bar ma?

- Áriyne bar. Qazirgi qiyndyqtar men qayshylyqtardy enserudi eng aldymen halyq pen biylik arasyndaghy baylanysty kýsheytuden bastau kerek. Qazir biylik bir qúrlyqta, halyq bir qúrlyqta ómir sýrip jatqan siyaqty. Desek te, biylikting týrli sheshimderi, ústanymdary halyqtyng kónilinen shyghady dep te aita almaymyz.

Mәselen, keybir sarapshylardyng tújyrymdauynsha, ýmitimiz zor, paydasy da bar bolghanmen, Kedendik Odaqtyng el ekonomikasyna, biznesting damuyna tiygizip otyrghan keri әseri joq emes. Óitkeni ol Odaqqa qatysushy elderding teng qúqyqtyghy saqtalmaghan. Ony Belorussiyanyng Preziydenti jaqsy aitty. «Rossiya bizdi aldady» dep mәlimdedi. Al bizding jaghdayymyz ol elmen salystyrghanda әldeqayda kýrdeli, әldeqayda tómen.

«Proton» zymyranynyng qúlauy ýlken ekologiyalyq apat boldy. Alayda odan da biz dúrys sabaq alghan joqpyz. Mysaly, elimizdin  ekologiya ministri  «Proton» zymyrany apat saldary joyylghansha úshyrylmaydy dep mәlimdedi. Al «Roskosmostyn» resmy saytynda zymyrannyng 17 qyrkýiekte úshyrylatynyn jariyalady. Búl da el ishinde narazylyghyn tughyzugha septigin tiygizbesine kim kepil?

Qytaymen vizasyz qatynas jasau da biz ýshin, últymyz ýshin jaqsylyqqa әkelmeytin sharua ekeni belgili. Jalpy aita bersek mәseleden ayaq alyp jýrgisiz.

Osy mәselening bәrin biylik qoghammen, halyqpen baylanysyn nyghayta otyryp, Konstitusiyany ózgertuden bastap ýlken-ýlken sayasy reforomalar jýrgizui tiyis.

Mәselen, osy jyldyng qazan aiynda «Núr Otan» partiyasynyng sezi óteyin dep jatyr. Arnayy sayasy doktrina dayyndalu ýstinde. Sol alqaly jiynda partiya tóraghasy Núrsúltan Ábishúly memleketimizding damuy men jana sayasy qadamdardy aiqyndap beredi degen oidamyn.

«Núr Otannyn» artyqshylyqtary men mýmkindikterin paydalana otyryp, belsendi qoghamdyq úiymdar men partiyalardyn, halyq pen biylikting arasyndaghy baylanys pen týsinistikti nyghaytu qajet-aq. Qarap otyrsanyz qazirgi qoghamymyzda keybir patriyalargha qaraghanda qoghamdyq úiym jetekshilerinin, jekelegen qogham belsendilerining bedeli artyp keledi. Osy jaghdaydy elimizding órkendeui jolynda, jana zamangha say janasha reformalar jasaugha paydalanghan dúrys dep oilaymyn.       

- Jalpy sayasy reforma turaly az aitylmaydy. Biraq sol reformalardyng naqty kórinisin kóre almay-aq kelemiz. Ol reformany kim bastap, kim jýrgizui tiyis?

-  Sizding búl tújyrymdamanyzben kelise almaymyn, óitkeni elimizding býgingi shyqqan shyndary ótken 22 jyldaghy jasaghan sayasy reformalardyng nәtiyjesi ekendigine qalay kýmәn keltiremiz? Al ol reformalardy elimizding Birinshi Preziydenti Nazarbaevtyng basshylyghymen is jýzine asyrdyq emes pe? Endeshe egemen elimizding ertenin sheshetin reformalardyng negizin qalaushy da Elbasy bolatyndyghynda eshbir kýmәnim joq. Ol turaly Núrsúltan Ábishúly biylghy jyldyng shilde aiynda teleekrangha shyqqan «Nazarbaev layf» derekti filiminde ashyq aityp ketti.

-  Ángimenizge rahmet.

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