Surette: sayasattanushy Erlan Qariyn

Suret  Erlan Qarinnin facebook paraqshasynan alyndy.

Siriyadaghy soghys qimyldaryna qatysyp jatqan IShIM («Irak pen Shamdaghy islam memleketi», arabsha DAESh dep atalyp ketken – red.) sodyrlar úiymy biyl kýtpegen jerden Iraktyng biraz aumaghyna baqylau ornatyp, «jihad jolymen halifat qúrghandaryn» jariyalady. Dýnie jýzi boyynsha birqatar islamshyl toptardan jaqtastar tapqan IShIM sodyrlarynyng qataryna qosylyp jatqandardyng ishinde jýzdegen qazaqstandyqtyng bar ekeni habarlana bastady. Azattyq búl qúbylysty zerttep jýrgen sayasattanushy Erlan Qarinmen Qazaqstandaghy «diny radikalizmnin» sipattary jayynda súhbattasty.

Azattyq: - Songhy uaqytta Qazaqstannyng әr aimaghynan IShIYM-ge qosylyp, Siriyadaghy sayasy rejimge qarsy soghysyp jýrgen jýzdegen «jihadshy qazaqstandyqtar» turaly habar taray bastady. Bir bayqalghany – olardyng kópshiligi Ortalyq jәne Soltýstik Qazaqstan aimaqtarynan shyqqan azamattar. Ásirese, Jezqazghan men Ekibastúz jii aitylady. Búl aimaqtarda jekelegen adamdardyng IShIYM-ning qataryna tartylu ýrdisining kýshtirek bolu sebebi nede dep oilaysyz?

Erlan Qariyn: - Siz aityp otyrghan eldi mekenderden azamattardyng Irak pen Siriyagha attanuynyng negizgi eki sebebin aitugha bolady.

Sarapshylardyng jii keltiretin sebepterining biri – osy eldi mekenderding әleumettik-ekonomikalyq damu erekshelikteri. Búl qalalardy búryn «depressivtik eldi mekender» dep ataytynbyz. Yaghny birqatar sarapshylardyng pikirinshe, oblystyq damu ýrdisinen tys qalyp, qarjy jetispeushiliginen nemese óndiris oryndarynyng toqtap qaluy sebebinen júmyssyzdyqtyn, ne taghy da basqa әleumettik problemalardyng tuuyna baylanysty sol qalalardaghy jastar qylmysqa jәne radikaldyq toptargha tartyla bastady. Onyng sony keybir jastardyng Aughanstan-Pәkistan shekara aimaghyna, Siriyagha ketuine úlasty. Alayda jastardyng radikaldyq qozghalystargha tartyluyn tek әleumettik-ekonomikalyq faktorlarmen baylanystyrugha da bolmaydy. Bәri birdey júmyssyz, nemese jaghdayy joq otbasylardyn shyqqan emes. Onyng ýstine, atalghan eldi mekenderge songhy jyldary ýkimetten kóp kónil bólinip, qarjy bólinip, jana júmys oryndarynyng ashyluyna jaghdaylar jasalyp jatyr.

Ekinshi sebepti taza sosiologiyalyq qúbylys dep aitugha bolady. Ómirding basqa da salalarynda bolyp jatqan jayttar siyaqty tanystyq faktory ról oinaydy. Osy atalghan aimaqtan Aughanstan men Siriya siyaqty elderge ketken birinshi tolqyn kóbine óz tanystary men dostaryn qatarlaryna tartady.   2010-2011 jyldardaghy «Djund әl-Halifat» atty úiymnyng tarihyn zerttegenimde oghan qosylghan qazaqstandyqtardyng kópshiligi Qazaqstannyng batys aimaghynan bolatyn. Olay bolu sebepteri de osy aitqanymday – ónirding әleumettik-ekonomikalyq damu erekshelikterimen qatar osy ónirden shyqqan azamattar qúrdastyr men dostaryn rekrut etip qatarlaryna tartqan bolatyn. Birinshi ókilder qay ónirden ketse, keyingilerin de sol ónirden, tanystarynyng arasynan tartady.

Jergilikti sarapshylardyng nazaryna ilinbey jýrgen taghy bir faktor – qazaqstandyqtar óz elinde jýrgende ghana radikaldyq toptargha qosylyp jatqan joq, shetelde jýrip osynday toptardyng («jihadshy-islamshyl» toptar – red.) qataryna ilinip ketip jatqandar bar. Jәne az emes. Mysaly biylghy mamyrda Almatyda bir 20 jastaghy jigit sottaldy. Ol jigit otbasymen Shvesiyada túryp jatyp osynday radikaldyq toptyng yqpalyna týsip, sol jaqtan Siriyagha attanyp ketken. Nemese AQSh-ta saparmen bolghan bir Qazaqstannyng azamatshasy belgili bir jaghdaylarmen sol jaqtaghy bir kisilerding yqpalyna týsip, Siriyadaghy radikaldyq toptargha kómek retinde aqsha jibergeni turaly amerikalyq qúqyq organdary anyqtaghan bolatyn.

Azattyq: - Songhy kezderi Qazaqstan biyligi IShIYM-nin, ya basqa da radikaldyq-ekstremistik toptardyng internettegi aqparattyq ýgit-nasihatyn tek tyiym salu arqyly shekteuge tyrysyp jatqany bayqalady. Múnday tәsil «jihadqa shaqyru» iydeologiyasynyn, dini-ekstremistik iydeyalardyng taraluyn tejey ala ma?

Erlan Qariyn: - Shynynda da internet jihadqa shaqyru iydeologiyasyn nasihattau ýshin radikaldyq toptardyng quatty qúralyna ainaldy. Siriyagha Qazaqstan men Ortalyq Aziyadan ketip jatqan azamattargha qatysty ýlken bir zertteuimdi ayaqtap qaldym. Osy zertteudegi ýlken bir tarau internettegi diny radikaldyq ýgit-nasihat turaly. Eger 5-10 jyl búrynghy jaghdaymen salystyratyn bolsaq, ol kezde diny ýgit-nasihat arnayy sayttar arqyly jýrgiziletin. Soghan sәikes arnayy qyzmet pen qúqyq qorghau organdary osynday radikaldyq sayttardy búghattaumen, tyiym salumen ainalysatyn. Biraq qazir jaghday óte qatty ózgerdi. Sebebi radikaldyq toptar sayttardy ghana emes, әleumettik jelilerding mýmkindikterin de kenirek paydalana bastady. Sayttarmen qatar Twitter jәne Facebook jelilerin qoldanady. Men qúsaghan sarapshylardy qatty alandatatyny – «VKontakte» jәne «Odnoklassnikiy» degen siyaqty әsirese jastardyng jii qoldanatyn әleumettik jelilerin paydalanady. Radikaldyq diny iydeyalar ashyqtan ashyq, óte kóp taratylady. Jaqynda jergilikti BAQ jariyalaghan derekterge sensek, Qazaqstannyng bas prokuraturasy osynday keybir rolikterdi alghyzyp tastau turaly YouTube jelisimen kelisimge kele alsa, «VKontakte» jelisining әkimshiligi kelispegen bolyp shyqty.

Amal joq, qúqyq qorghau organdary radikaldyq toptardyng internettegi jәne basqa da arnalardaghy ýgit-nasihatyn tejeu ýshin kýres jýrgizip kele jatyr. Alayda, mening oiymsha, naqty bir jas azamatty qolyna qaru aldyryp jihadqa iytermeleytin Twitter men Facebook-ting ózi emes. Negizgi sebep ol azamattyng kýndelikti ómirinde bolyp jatqan naqty obektivti oqighalar. Twitter men Facebook tek tanysu qúraly. Qúqyq qorghau organdary basqa da faktorlarmen kýresui kerek. Biraq búl mәselelerding keybiri qúqyq qorghau organdarynyng kompetensiyasynan tys nәrseler.

Azattyq: - IShIM siyaqty halyqaralyq dengeyde tanymal ekstremistik úiymdardyng nemese Qazaqstannyng arnayy qyzmetteri «qater» retinde jii aitatyn «Djund әl-Halifat» siyaqty aimaqtyq dengeyde belgili úiymdardyng yqtimal terroristik әreketterimen kýres nauqany eldegi basqa, beybit diny azshylyq toptardyng senim bostandyghyn shektep, qyzmet ayasyn odan sayyn taryltyp jibermey me? Múny súrap otyrghan sebebim - «Djund әl Halifat» turaly jazyp bitirgen jana kitabynyzdy әzirleu kezinde Qazaqstannyng birqatar aimaqtaryn aralap, kóptegen top ókilderimen kezdesipsiz. Zertteushi retinde ne bayqadynyz?

Erlan Qariyn: - Zertteuimde terrorizm strategiyasy men taktikasyn jeke mәsele retinde alyp qaradym. Al elde bolyp jatqan diny prosesterge tereng ýnile almadym. Biraq degenmen bir bayqaghanym, eldegi qalyptasqan jaghdaygha әser etken faktorlardyng biri – diny salada jýieli júmystyng bolmauy. Al memleket tarapynan jasalghan jana sharalar eldegi týrli diny toptardyng qarsylyghyna tap bolghan siyaqty. Endi qazir búl sayasat qayta qaralyp, biylik júmsaqtau tәsilge kóshkendey. Jaqynda ýkimetti qayta qúru kezinde Din isteri jónindegi agenttikting bir ministrlik qúramynda jay komiytet bolyp qaluy memlkeketting din sayasaty boyynsha jýieli týrde jana bir strategiyagha kóshkenin nemese, diny toptarmen qarym-qatynasyn júmsartugha әreket etuine úqsaydy.

Oblystardy aralap jýrgende bayqaghanym – keybir «radikaldyq» dep sipattalghan diny toptar de-yro zansyz dep tanylghanymen, de-fakto óz júmysyn jasap jatyr. Onday top mýshelerining bas qosuyna tyiym salynyp jatpaghan siyaqty. Olardyng ashyq týrde, keng auqymda ýgit-nasihat jýrgizuine rúqsat berilmeydi, degenmen olar óz ishinde qyzmetterin atqaryp jatyr. Búl qúbylys biylikte osy mәseleni sheshuge qatysty izdenis bar ekenin kórsetedi. Biraq búl izdenisting bir ortalyghy joq siyaqty. Qúqyqqorghau organdarynda – bir kózqaras, din isteri komiytetinde – basqa kózqaras qalyptasqan, al әrbir aimaqtaghy jergilikti biylik jergilikti jaghday men diny toptardyng ereksheligine qatysty ózinshe bir eksperiymentaldyq sayasat jýrgizip jatqan siyaqty.

Azattyq: - Súhbatynyz ýshin raqmet!

Súhbattasqan - Ghalym Boqash

Derekkóz: http://www.azattyq.org/content/kazakhstan_

interview_with_karin_on_religious_radicalism/26580095.html

Taqyryp ózgertilip alyndy. Týpnúsqadaghy taqyryp: Diny salada jýieli júmys joq