Týrik oishyly, islam ghalym, filosof  F. Gýlen  Siriya, Tayau Shyghys, Týrkiyanyng ontýstik shyghys Anadoly aimaghy, Kýrt jәne  DAESh mәseleleri jayly «Regnum.ru» portalyna súhbat berip, pikirin tarqatypty. 

- Týrkiyanyng Siriya men Tayau shyghys sayasatyna qalay qaraysyz? Týriya-Resey qatynastary túrghysynan aimaqtyng bolashaghyn qalay boljaysyz?

-Tayau Shyghys pen Týrkiyadaghy oqighalargha qarasaq, III Dýniyejýzilik soghys tútana ma dep alandaymyn. Óitkeni barlyq nәrseni payda men mýdde túrghysynan baghalaytyn әri sol paydalardy ózara bólise almaytyn әlemde ortaq mәselede kelisu óte qiyn.

Siriyada bastapqyda demokratiya lebi esip, negizgi adam qúqy men erkindigin izdegen bir qozghalys bastaldy. Alayda, Siriya shyndyqtar men halyqaralyq kelisimderge kóz júmyp, syrtqy kýshterding aralasuymen, ókinishtisi, túiyqqa tireldi.

Problemany óz ornynda sheshpegendikten, ol úlghayyp, jaragha ainaldy. Sóitip halqynyng sany jiyrma million eldegi problema qazir býkil әlemning problemasyna ainaldy. Áyel, bala-shagha bosqyndardyn, әlsiz, dәrmensiz adamdar tap bolghan jayttardy, joldarda kezdesken qiyndyqtar men Evropa bosaghasyndaghy jaghdaydy kórip otyrsyzdar.

Uaqytynda marqúm sheyit Sәiid Ramazan әl-Butidyng aitqanyn rastady. Marqúm Buty bayypty sunny ghalym retinde Siriyadaghy demokratiyanyng keng uaqytta jasaluyn jón kórgen bolatyn. Biylikti birden ózgertu ýshin jasalatyn ister eldi ishki azamattyq soghysqa iytermeleydi dep qauiptenetin. Álimshe men de qalymdy súrap kelgen týrik ýkimetining yqpaldy adamdaryna dәl soghan úqsas kenester aittym. Tipti marqúm әl-Butidyng da osynday kózqarasta ekenin bildirdim. Tipti ol jibergen hattyng bir kóshirmesin de basshylargha berip jiberdim.

Siriya mәselesinde bizding kenesterimizge qúlaq aspady

Týrkiyany basqarghandar bir uaqyttar Asadpen jaqsy qarym-qatynasta boldy. Osyny paydalanyp, Asadty qoldap, keng uaqytqa sala otyryp, qajet bolsa, Asadtyng demokratiyalyq joldarmen tandaluyna qoldau retinde satylay ótuge baru kerek edi. Siriya Týrkiyamen óte tyghyz sauda, sayasy әri әleumettik qatynastarymen orta jәne úzaq merzimde anaghúrlym jayly әri demokratiyalyq elge әiteuir bayyppen әri beybit týrde ainalar edi. Alayda, bir uaghyzshydan syrtqy sayasatty ýirenemiz be dep búl kenesterge mәn bermedi.

Ol problemalardy uaqytynda mәseleni obektivti týrde qolgha alghan adamdarmen aqyldasqanda sheshuge bolar edi. Biraq shalalyqqa úrynyp, bayyppen is jasay almaghandyqtan, ony ensere almay týrli kelensizdikterge týrtki boldy. Oppozisiyalyq toptargha qaru men basqa da týrli qoldau berilgende mәsele asqynyp, jaragha ainaldy әri negizgi keng uaqytqa sala otyryp iske asyrugha bolatyn demokratiyalyq damudyng joly kesildi. Búnyng kesirin ótkinshi lagerilerde ómir sýruge mәjbýr bolghan, Evropanyng tabaldyryghynda mýshkil haldegi jazsyqsyz Siriya halqy tartuda. Osy jaghdaydan keyin qysqa merzimde jasaluy qajet is óte keremet bolmasa da aqqan qandy toqtata alatynday әri ziyan shekken milliondaghan jazyqsyz adamnyng sәl de bolsa kónilin demeytin sayasy formulalar tabugha tyrysu. Ol ýshin adamy әri ar-újdangha qozghau salatyn isterdi qolgha alyp, halyqaralyq qauymdastyqtyng tyghyz diplomatiyalyq talpynys kórsetui kerek. AQSh-tyng ról oinaghanynday, Resey de bir tepe-tendikti ústap túrghan kýsh retinde ról oinaytyn bolady. Búl elderding osy mәselede bir ýstelding ainalasyna otyryp, dialogqa baruy óte manyzdy. 3-dýniyejýzilik soghysqa jol beretin bolsa, әlemning jartysy demde-aq joq bolady. Alla saqtasyn, Bertrand Russeli bylay deydi: «1-dýniyejýzilik soghysta mynau boldy. 2-dýniyejýzilik soghysta anau boldy. Eger 3-dýniyejýzilik soghys tútansa, ólgender qabir qúshady, al óltirgenderding ózi onbay, jan saqtau bólimine týsedi». Osy sebepti sonyna deyin diplomatiyagha jýgingen jón.

- Týrkiya sayasatynyng baghytynan tayghany aitylady. Myndaghan adam sayasatkerlerding yqpalymen týrmege toghytylyp, Kýrt azamattar әdiletsiz týrde qysymgha úshyrauda. Búlar jayly ne aitasyz? Kýrt aimaghynyng mәselesin qalay sheshu kerek dep oilaysyz?

-Siriya men Irakta da meyli kýrt meyli ózge de etnikalyq әri diny toptar ýshin mәdeny qúqyn moyyndau, investisiya arqyly olargha qoldanu mýmkindikterin beru әri memleketting óz azamattaryn sol kýiinde qabyldauy, olargha ókilettik etu qúqyn berui, zandy túrghyda talaptaryn oryndau eng dúrys sheshim joly bolar edi.

- Aymaqtyng tynyshyn búzyp otyrghan DAESh  (Irak-Siriya islam memleketi) bar. Búl turaly ne aitasyz? DAESh-ten qútylu ýshin ne isteu kerek? Onymen qalay kýresken dúrys?

-DAESh pen soghan úqsas radikaldardyng jasaghandarymen kýresu ýshin mәseleni týp-tamyrymen әri barlyq qyrlarymen qolgha alu kerek. Mәselening diny qyry da bar jәne diny emes sayasi, ekonomikalyq, әleumettik-psihologiyalyq qyrlary da bar. Mәseleni tek dinmen shektep, ózge qyrlaryna kóz júmyp qarasa, búl mәselede algha jylju qiyn.

Búlardy sheshu ýshin músylmandargha tiyesili jauapkershilikter bolumen qatar memleketterge jәne últtarlyq úiymdar atqarar mindetter de bar. Bir jaghynan DAESh sekildi, әl-Kaida sekildi terrorlyq úiymdar bar. Endi bir jaghynan otandastargha qysym jasaytyn, erkindigin shekteytin, әdiletsizdik jasaytyn, zandardy júmys istetpeytin memleketter de bar. Adamdardy ýmitsizdikke iytermelep, terrorist úiymdardyng túzaghyna týsuin jenildetetin memleket isterin de elemey qoygha bolmaydy.

DAESh dep atalatyn úiym naghyz jauyzdyq oshaghy, qaraqshylar toby, alayda búlargha qaru-jaraq jetkiziledi, jastardy qataryna tartularyna tosqauyl jasalynbaydy, olar internette jarnama jasay alady, nauqastary emdetilip, eshqanday jauapqa tartylmastan erkin jiberiledi, jetekshilerin keyde qamap, keyde bos qoya beredi. Bir jaghynda Týrkiyada ómiri qúmyrsqanyng ózin әdeyi baspaghan, Qyzmet qauymdastyghyng azamattary terrorist delinip, ýilerinde tintu jýrude, alayda DAESh dep atalatyn osy bir jauyz úiym jayly sonday sózder aitylmauda, olargha dәl sonday qatynas jasalmauda.

DAESh eng ýlken ziyandy sunny músylman әlemine jasauda

Músylmandar azshylyqta bolghandyqtan batystyq memleketter terrormen kýresip jatqanda, músylman otandastardy renjitetindey sózder men isterden abay bolu kerek. Músylmandardyng kópshiligining qoldauy bolmastan búl terrorizm bәlesinen qútylu mýmkin emes. Aytqanday, terror úiymdarynyng qúrbandarynyng kóbi músylmandar. DAESh ózinshe Siriya men Irakta sunny músylmandardyng qúqyn qorghap jatqanyn algha tartud,  alayda qúrbandarynyng kóbi soltýstik Irak kýrtterin de qosqanda, sunny músylmandar. Mәselege jalpylama qarasaq, DAESh-tyng eng ýlken ziyandy sunny músylmandar әlemine tiygizgenin aitugha bolady.

Mәseleni týp-tamyrynan qolgha almaghandyqtan bireui bitkenmen basqasy tóbe kórsetedi. Bireuining kózin qúrtsanyz, ekinshisi búrqyldap shyghady. Balama býlik pen búzaqylyq oshaqtary bar. Keshe әl-Kaida turaly aityp jatqan edi, ony endi qúrtty degende, bir demde DAESh  payda boldy. Endi bir jaqta Boko Haram bar, bәri de bas keser, bәri de qan qaqsatuda. Adam óltirip júmaqqa baru sekildi súmdyq ótirikpen jastardy aldauda. Búnyng sonday súmdyq ótirik ekeni sonshalyq – oghan sengenderdi qatigezge ainaldyryp, әri islamnyng pәk kelbetine qara daq týsirip, júrtty músylmandardan shoshityn jaghdaygha jetkizude.

DAESh jastarymyzdy qalay aldauda?

Biz músylmandar retinde búl mәselege tek syrtqy kýshterdin, keybir qauipsizdik úiymdarynyng oiyny dep qarap bir jaqqa ysyra almaymyz. Óitkeni búnday jauyz úiymdar bizding jastarymyzdy týrli uәdelerdi ýiip-tógu arqyly ózderine tartuda. Qalay búl jastarymyzdy alday alady? Sonda biz jastarymyzgha tiyisinshe dúrys bilim bere almadyq pa? Olardy jaqsy tәrbiyeley almadyq pa?

Qúran kәrimde bir ghana jazyqsyz jandy óltirudi býkil adamzatty óltirumen tenestirgen. Payghambarymyz (s.a.u.) qorghanu maqsatynda zandy bir soghystyng ózinde soghysqa shyqpaghan adamdargha, әsirese, әielder, balalar men diny qyzmetkerlerge tiyisuge bolmaytyndyghyn qatang tyighan. Jaratushy ie Qúran kәrimde «Biz Adam úldaryn abal ettik» deude. Ár adamdy adam bolghandyghy ýshin baghalauda. Bir-birlerindi tanu ýshin senderdi týrli-týrli etip jarattyq deude. Kóp týrlilikti baylyq retinde kórsetude. Sonda búlardy jastarymyzgha týsindire almadyq pa?!

DAESh sekildi terrorlyq úiymdardyng din mәselesinde qanshalyqty shynayy ekenin bilmeymiz. Alayda, eng joq degende aralaryna anghaldyqpen aldanyp baryp qalghan jastar baryn esepke ala otyryp, mәselege jaqyndaytyn bolsaq, olardyng qatelikterin din túrghysynan da kórsetuimiz qajet bolady. Mýmkin keybir jastar manayynan shynayy músylmandyqtyng ýlgisin kóre almaghandyqtan, izdeniske barady. Osynday úiymdardyng uәdelerine senip aldanady. Baryp qosylady әri esh andamastan negizinen músylmandyqqa eng auyr qiyanat jasaydy.

BAQ-tan angharghanym, olar diny negizderdegi negizgi qatelik diny qaynar kózderge aldy men artyn tolyq bajaylap almastan, tútas qaramay әr jerinen ýzip-júluy. Qúran ayattarynyng týsu sebepterimen qatar qay uaqytta, әri әleumettik sayasy jaghdaylar kezinde týskenin elemey qoygha bolmaydy.

Hadis shәripter ýshin de osyny aitugha bolady. Qúran men sýnnetting ózegin týsinuge tyrysu kerek. Ol kezenderde islamnyng satylap keybir nәrseni alyp tastaudy kózdeui, toleranttylyqpen qaraghany, alayda sol kýii joyyp jibermegen qúl iyelenushilik sekildi mәseleni býgin qayta qozghau dinning ruhyn týsinbeu degen sóz.

Abdurrahman Azzamnyng «Ábady risalet» kitabynda aitqanday, Payghambarymyz (s.a.u.) jәne alghashqy músylmandardyng soghystary jeke-jeke qarastyrylsa, barlyghynyng qorghanys soghystary bolghany bayqalady. Osyny týsinbegen jaghdayda Qúran men sýnnettegi soghystargha qatysty aitylghandardy op-onay teris maqsatqa paydalanyp ketu jaghdayy tuady.

Qúrannyn, siyardyn, dinning ruhyn jastargha bere aludyng joly bilimde jatyr. Barlyq mәseleni bilim arqyly úzaq merzimde sheshuge bolady. Demokratiyalyq qúndylyqtar, adamgha qúrmet, ómirge qúrmet, barlyq adamdy qadirleu sekildi qúndylyqtardy oqu baghdarlamasyna engizuge bolady.

Úzaq merzimde sheshu ýshin osylardy jasaumen qatar qysqa merzimde terrorlyq toptargha qarsy odaq qúrylsa, Amerika men Resey de osy odaqpen birge  mәseleni sheshuge bolady. Joq degende, qataryna kóp adamdy tartudyng aldyn alyp, búl qaterli isikting asqynbauyna jol bermeuge bolady.

Abai.kz