Ázimbay Ghali, sayasattanushy:

Qazirgi kezde halyq sanyn kóbeytu ýshin tuu kórsetkishin arttyrumen qatar halyqtyng sapalyq qasiyetterine de nazar audarugha tura kelip otyr. Ortalyq Aziyadaghy migrasiyalyq tolqyn Qazaq elining paydasyna sheshile me? Qazaqstannyng demografiyalyq kókjiyegine kóz jiberu maqsatymen belgili sayasattanushy Ázimbay GhALIYMEN súhbattasqan edik.

Ázimbay Ghali, sayasattanushy:

Qazirgi kezde halyq sanyn kóbeytu ýshin tuu kórsetkishin arttyrumen qatar halyqtyng sapalyq qasiyetterine de nazar audarugha tura kelip otyr. Ortalyq Aziyadaghy migrasiyalyq tolqyn Qazaq elining paydasyna sheshile me? Qazaqstannyng demografiyalyq kókjiyegine kóz jiberu maqsatymen belgili sayasattanushy Ázimbay GhALIYMEN súhbattasqan edik.

- Sizding oiynyzsha Qazaqstannyng qazirgi demografiyalyq qarqyny kónilinizden shygha ma?
- Ótken ghasyrdyng 50-60 jyldary Qazaqstan bala tuu jaghynan dýniyejýzilik rekordqa jaqyn kórsetkish berdi. Bizding baqytymyzgha oray sol zamanda preparattar men vaksinalar kóp tabylyp, ólim jaghdaylaryn azaytugha da septigin tiygizdi. Sol kezdegi demografiyalyq serpilis Tәuelsiz Qazaqstannyng qalyptasuyna atsalysyp jýrgen 80-shi jyldardyng ortasyndaghy buyndy ómirge alyp keldi. Qazirgi tanda qol jetkizip otyrghan ósimimiz 50-60 jyldardaghy demografiyalyq qúbylystyng ýshinshi tolqyny. Nekelesushi jas otbasylardyng kóbengining arqasynda bala sany artyp otyr. Búrynghy jyldardaghy kórsetkishtermen salystyrghanda ósim bayqalady. Biraq bala sanyn әr әielge shaqqandaghy kórsetkishi tómendedi. 7-8 balany dýniyege әkeletin otbasylardyng ornyn 2-3 balaly otbasylar basty. Búl kýrdeli mәselening aldyn alu ýshin Mýftiyat abort jasatugha tyiym salugha arnayy bәtua shygharu kerek siyaqty. Óitkeni demografiyanyng týiinin ruhany ortalyqtar arqyly aghytugha bolady.
1992 jyldan beri Qazaqstandaghy orys, ukraiyn, belorus, tatar últtarynyng ókilderi depopulya­siyagha úshyrady. Yaghny búl halyqtar arasynda tughandardan ólgenderding sany asyp týsti. Jәne nekelesushi jastardyng sany da kýrt azaydy. Atalghan diasporalardyng Qazaqstandaghy sanynyng kemuin olardyng óz eline qonys audaruymen ghana týsindiru qate, sonymen birge olardyng demografiyalyq toqyraugha týsip jatqanyn da qosa aituymyz kerek.
- Biz ózge týrki halyqtaryn qazaqtyng qúra­my­na siniru arqyly sanymyzdy arttyra alamyz ba?
- Qazaqstandaghy negizgi ósimdi 66 payyzdy qúrap otyrghan qazaqtar beredi. Aghylshyndarda heritidj (heritage) degen sóz bar. Qazaqshagha «múra» dep audarghanymyzben, olar ýshin búl sózding maghynasy ýlken. Aghylshyndar «Mening tegim» degendi «My heritage» dep aitady eken. Basqa halyqtardy ózimizge sinirude bizding sanymyzben qatar sapalyq qasiyetterimiz basty ról atqarady. Biz óz heritidjimizdi tabuymyz kerek. Sonda assimilyasiya (siniru) ýrdisi tipti jaqsy nәtiyje beredi. Qazaqstandaghy úighyrlar songhy on jylda eng az degende 25 payyzgha ósu kerek edi, al olar 6-7 payyzgha ghana ósti. Óitkeni olar qazaqtardyng arasyna sinip jatyr. Ony ózderi qalypty qúbylys dep baghalap, sinip jatqandaryn jasyrmaydy. Elimizde sanynyng kóptigi jaghynan qazaqtan keyingi últ orys, ýshinshi oryngha qazir ózbekter shyqty. Odan bólek 200 mynday Ózbekstan azamaty Qazaqstanda júmys istep jýr. 5-9 million ózbek Reseyde kýnkóris qamymen jýr. Jeri tar, әleumettik-ekonomikalyq reforma jýrgizbegen Ózbekstan auyr kezendi bastan ótkerude. Qazaqstanda ózbek últynyng assimilyasiyasy bayqalmaghanymen, adaptasiyasy bayqaluda. Adaptasiyagha týsip jatqanynyng eki belgisi bar. Birinshiden, Qazaqstandaghy ózbekterding 70-80 payyzy qazaqsha biledi. Ekinshiden, balalarynyng attaryn qazaqsha qoyatyn boldy.
Ózbek qazaqqa eng jaqyn halyq ekenin týsinuimiz kerek. 500 jyl búryn bir shanyraqtyng astynda ómir sýrgenbiz. Qazaq pen ózbekti dinastiya bóldi. Olar Shәibany әuletining sonynan erdi, biz Orys hannyng úrpaqtaryn ózimizge han etip sayladyq. Osy túrghydan bizder etnografiyalyq týsiniktemeler jýrgize biluimiz kerek. Tólqújattarynda ózbek dep jazylyp túrsa da Qazaqstandaghy ózbekterdi otanyna oralyp jatqan qazaqtar esebinde qabyldauymyz qajet.
Qazaqtarda últaralyq nekening ýlesi erlerding arasynda 3,5 payyz, qyzdardyng arasynda da 3,5 payyz. Demografiyalyq meje boyynsha 8 payyzgha deyin az bolyp esepteledi. Onda da últaralyq nekening jartysy ózbek, úighyr, qyrghyz siyaqty qazaqqa jaqyn týrkitildes halyqtar. Oryspen, nemispen nekelesu az. Al eldegi úighyrlardyng әrbir tórtinshi jigiti, әrbir tórtinshi qyzy últaralyq nekege týsedi. Qazaqstandaghy ózbek jigitterding 12 payyzy, ózbek qyzdardyng 10 payyzy últaralyq nekege týsken. Búlar kimmen nekelesui mýmkin, әriyne, qazaqtarmen nekelesedi. Biz qazaqtar bir-birimizdi qatty qasterleydi ekenbiz. Dinimizge berikpiz, óz últymyzdyng ókilderimen nekege túramyz.
- Qala qazaqtarynyng sany kóbeyip keledi degen sóz bar. Búl qanshalyqty nanymdy?
- 1970 jyldan bastap Qazaqstandaghy orys, ukraiyn, belorus ókilderi sanynyng keri salidosy payda boldy. Yaghny kelgenderden ketkenderding sany kóbeye bastady. 1990 jyldan beri qaray búl ýderis ýdedi. Mәselen, 1994 jyly 410 myng ózge últ ókili elden kóship ketti. Sol sebepti bizding elde últaralyq qaqtyghys bolghan joq. Qaladaghy pәterlerding sany arzandap, oghan qazaqtar kirip aldy. Urbanizasiya jedeldep, qalalyq qazaqtardyng sany artty. Qazir qazaqtardyng 55 payyzy qalaly jerlerde túrady. Búryn qalada túrghan jazushylar auyl turaly shygharmalar jazatyn. Sebebi ol kezde qazaqtardyng kóbi auyldy jerde túratyn, qalalar basqa últtardyng enshisinde edi. Býgingi tanda qala da qazaqtyng qútty mekenine ainaldy. Jәne búl baghyt ary qaray jalghasyn tauyp, qala qazaqtyng nazaryn ózine audara beretin bolady. Ekinshiden, qazaqtar jekemenshik iyesi atandy. Qalaly jer bylay túrsyn, búryn auyldaghy qazaqtardyng jekemenshiginde maly jәne arzan baspanasy ghana boldy. Jerge jekemenshik mýldem bolghan joq. Qazir әiteuir birtindep bolsa da pәter iyesi, dýken iyesi, jer iyesi, kәsiporyn iyesi atanyp jatqan qazaqtardyng sany artuda. Ýshinshiden, qala qazaqtyng últtyq sanasyn, diny izdenisin oyatty. Egemendi el boluymyz últtyq sanamyzdy oyatsa, dýniyejýzilik tolqynmen birge dinge qúshtarlyghymyz kýsheydi. Oghan qosa ekzistensialdy-túrmystyq tirshiligimiz jaqsardy. Kenes ókimeti túsynda qazaqtar jergilikti basshylargha qatty tәueldi edi. Jem-shóp, jer, kómir solardyng qolynan ótetin. Qazir basshylardy tanysang da amandaspaugha qaqyng bar. Derbes sheshim qabylday alatyn mýmkindik taptyq.
Qalaly jerdegi qazaqtardyng molangynyng arqasynda qazaqsha oqityndardyng ýlesi 85 payyzgha jetti. Qazaqstandaghy ózge týrki tildes halyqtardyng qazaqsha ýirenuge bas qoyghany anyq bayqalady. Qazaq halqy 70-shi jyldardan beri qonys audaryp ketip jatqan basqa últtardyng ornyn toltyrumen qatar demografiyalyq ósimge de qol jetkizude. Qazaqstan halqy 2000-2008 jyldary 8-9 payyzgha ósti. Qazaqstan 1989 jyldaghy halqynyng sanyna 2008 jyly әzer jetse de, búl joly 16 jarym million kórsetkishke qazaqtardyng esebinen jettik.
- Qazirgi qandastarymyzdyng boyynan qanday qasiyetterdi bayqaysyz?
- Men songhy uaqytta qazaqtyng eki airyqsha qasiyetin bayqadym. Birinshiden, biz shiraq halyq ekenbiz, ekinshiden, dini berik halyq ekenbiz. Asharshylyqtan, soghystan, repressiyadan qynaday qyryldyq, tiri qalghandarymyz esimizdi jiyp, jalma-jan tirshilik etpesek, ne týrmede, ne konslageride óletinimizdi týsindik. Mening arghy atalarym, aghayyndy tórt jigit 1916 jyly bir kýnde ajal qúshqan. Al atam tughan bauyry ekeui de repressiyagha úshyrady. Biri Qiyr Shyghysqa aidalyp, keyin elge oraldy. Ekinshi atam atyldy. Ákemdi soghysqa shaqyryp, biraq soghysqa jibermey týrmege jauyp tastaghan. Bizding әulette týrmege jabylmaghan tek men ghana. Mening babalarym men atalarym orta jasqa jetkende ne ólip ketken, ne abaqtygha qamalghan. Men ýshin týrme degen әli kýnge deyin qorqynyshty sóz. Múnday auyr qiyndyqty kórgen halyq tez shiraydy. Taghdyr bizdi sharuaqor etip tәrbiyelepti. Men keyde uniyversiytetterdi bitirgen ýndistandyqtargha, pәkistandyqtargha, bangladeshtikterge, arabtargha tanghalamyn. Shetinen sylbyr, bos qoy. Kelisken dýniyeni der kezinde oryndamaydy. Al qazaqtar onday emes. Etimiz tiri. IYnening kózinen ótemiz. Shiraqtyq bizge bastapqy prinsiypimizdi tauyp berdi. Ol prinsip búrynghy babalarymyzdyng boyynda bolghan saqtyq formulasy. Mәselen, elge jau shapty. Týrkistannan habar kýtpey-aq ne isteu kerektigi ishke formulamen bekitilip, barlyq joldary men núsqalary qarastyrylyp qoyghan. Óitkeni formula belgili. Qazaq gomogendi jabyq halyq eken. Revolusiyagha deyin hristian dinine ótken qazaq 1 payyz ghana bolghan. Sol zamanda shoqynghan qazaqtargha myna Qaskelenning manynan jer beredi eken. Ashtyqtan, joqshylyqtan qinalghan biren-saran qazaqtar ghana hristian dinine ótipti. Mening oiymsha olar keyinnen músylman dinine qaytyp keldi. Osy kýnge deyin hristian dinin qabyldaghan qazaqtardyng ýlesi 1 payyz tónireginen auytqyghan emes. Ontýstik Koreyadaghy kәristerding 40 payyzy buddizmdi tәrk etip, hristian dinine ótip ketken. Men sol elge issaparmen baryp, hristian kәristerden ne ýshin dinderin auystyrghandaryn súraghanymda, olar qabaq shytyp jaqtyrtpady. Din auystyru әr adamnyng jeke isi ekenin aityp, maghan jekip tastady. Bizdi múndaydan Qúday saqtasyn.
- Ángimenizge rahmet!

Súhbattasqan
Beybit NÁLIBAEV

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