31 mamyr - Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryn eske alu kýni. Qazaq tarihta qanshama azap tartty: arghysyn aitpaghanda, bergisi - asharshylyq pen sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary sol azapty jyldardyng jazyqsyz bozdaqtary. Alayda biz jiyrma jylgha taqau uaqyt tәuelsiz el bolyp tanylsaq ta, osy qyzyl nәubetterge әli kýnge sayasy bagha bere almay kelemiz.

Nege? Kimnen qorqamyz?

«DAT, taqsyr!» aidarynyng býgingi qonaghy tarih ghylymdarynyng doktory, professor Talas Omarbekov (surette) osy súraqtardyng jauabyn tarqatady.

BIZ DAYYN EMESPIZ

- Talas myrza, Qazaqstanda 31 mamyrdyng «Qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryn eske alu kýni» etip belgilengeni bәrimizge ayan. Alayda osy atauly kýn kóp jaghdayda eleusiz qalyp jatady. Yaghny qúrbandar turaly parlamentte nemese ýkimet otyrystarynda auyz jarytarlyq sóz aitylmaydy. Kezinde bizben odaqtas bol­ghan Ózbekstan, Ukraina, Gruziya jәne Baltyq jaghalauy elderi osy kýnge әldeqashan sayasy baghasyn berip, aruaqtaryn úlyqtap qoyghan. Búl qúlyqsyzdyq pa, zerdesizdik pe?

31 mamyr - Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryn eske alu kýni. Qazaq tarihta qanshama azap tartty: arghysyn aitpaghanda, bergisi - asharshylyq pen sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary sol azapty jyldardyng jazyqsyz bozdaqtary. Alayda biz jiyrma jylgha taqau uaqyt tәuelsiz el bolyp tanylsaq ta, osy qyzyl nәubetterge әli kýnge sayasy bagha bere almay kelemiz.

Nege? Kimnen qorqamyz?

«DAT, taqsyr!» aidarynyng býgingi qonaghy tarih ghylymdarynyng doktory, professor Talas Omarbekov (surette) osy súraqtardyng jauabyn tarqatady.

BIZ DAYYN EMESPIZ

- Talas myrza, Qazaqstanda 31 mamyrdyng «Qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryn eske alu kýni» etip belgilengeni bәrimizge ayan. Alayda osy atauly kýn kóp jaghdayda eleusiz qalyp jatady. Yaghny qúrbandar turaly parlamentte nemese ýkimet otyrystarynda auyz jarytarlyq sóz aitylmaydy. Kezinde bizben odaqtas bol­ghan Ózbekstan, Ukraina, Gruziya jәne Baltyq jaghalauy elderi osy kýnge әldeqashan sayasy baghasyn berip, aruaqtaryn úlyqtap qoyghan. Búl qúlyqsyzdyq pa, zerdesizdik pe?

- Negizi, kenestik jýie kezinde jasalghan kez kelgen saya­sy әreketke tәuelsiz Qazaqstan jauap beruge mindetti emes. Al Ózbekstandy aitar bolsaq, ol el bizge ýlgi bola almaydy. Óitkeni «óz-aghamnyn» qazirgi jaghdayy sol búrynghy kenestik basqaru jýiesinen esh aiyrmasy joq. Qarapayym tilmen aitqanda, syrtynyng jyltyraghany bolmasa, Ózbekstandaghy sayasy jaghday bizden de kýrdeli. Kәrimovting býgingi beynesi búrynghy Ámir­-Temir han siyaqty. Yaghny jeke basqa tabynu ýderisi jýrip jatyr. Al Ukraina bastaghan Europa halyqtaryn aitsaq, olar aziyalyq bolmaghandary ýshin, Kenes Odaghy kezinde orystarmen teng qúqyly ómir sýrgen.

- Aytasyz-au, agha, jeke bas­qa tabynu bizding Qazaqstanda joq pa eken?! Mәselen, arghy tarihymyzdy aitsaq, o zamandary biz han­dargha, odan orystyng biyleushilerine, keyinnen Kommunistik partiyagha baghyndyq qoy... Endi «elbasy» degen edireng shyqty...

- IYә, búl pikirinizdi joqqa shyghara almaymyn. Biz de jeke basqa baghynudy, tabynudy qanymyzgha әbden sinirgen halyqpyz. Hangha, patshagha baghyndyq. Osy orayda kórshiles qyrghyz aghayyndar jóninde bir-eki pikir aita keteyin. Qyrghyzdar tarihynda eshqashan han bolmaghan. Olardy manaptar basqaratyn bolghan. Sondyqtan bizge aiyr qalpaqty aghayyndar da ýlgi bola almaydy. Jyl basyndaghy Qyrghyzstandaghy demokratiyagha úmtylghan jalpy jaghdaydan keyin, búl aghayyndardan mening kónilim qaldy. Endi olar eldi basqaratyn jeke túlgha bolmaghandyqtan, biylikti parlamentke ústatpaq.

Bizding qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandarymyzgha sayasy bagha bere almay otyrghan bir sebebimiz - tәuelsiz el bolsaq ta, biz sayasy mәni bar tarihy nәubetke bagha beruge dayyn emespiz.

Qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary ghana emes, osydan 15 jyldyng aldynda Almatydan «Asharshylyq qúrbandaryna» arnap eskertkish túrghyzu turaly qauly shyghyp, eskertkishting taghantasyn ornatqan. Oryny - Almatynyng Nauryzbay men Qabanbay kóshelerining qiylysyndaghy shaghyn sayabaq bolatyn. Alayda sol tasymyz kýni býginge deyin myzghymay túr. Juyrda «Shahnamany» qazaqsha jyrlaghan әigili jyrshymyz Iztileu Túrmaghambetovting úrpaqtary sol sayabaqtan atalaryna arnap eskertkish túrghyzypty.

Al ashtyq jyldary kim ólmedi? Ár qazaqtyng kem degende bir, ne odan da kóp jaqyn-jәmeti kóz júmdy. Biraq elimizdegi qaltasy qalyng azamattar sol aruaqtargha arnap bir eskertkish ornatugha әli saran.

- Ýkimetting peyili týspegen júmysqa jekelegen azamattardyng nazar audarma­uynda da sebep bar shyghar, mәselen, asharshylyq siyaqty qazaq últynyng qasiretin joqtau - biylikke jaqpauy mýmkin. Siz ait­qan azamattar múnday últtyq-tarihy mәselede óz erkimen júmys istep, «qylmysker» bolyp qaludan qorqatyn shyghar?

- Asharshylyq - aldymen sayasy mәsele emes. Ol - kenestik biylikting auylsharuashylyq reformasyn qate jýrgizuinen tuyndaghan qayghyly jaghday. Sondyqtan múnyng joqtaushylary jauapqa tartyla qoymaydy. Degenmen bizding ýkimetting asharshylyq qúrbandaryn elemey otyruynda biz bilmeytin qúpiya sebep bar boluy әbden mýmkin...

Asharshylyq adam qolymen jasaldy degenning ózinde, ol - sol kezdegi Kenes Odaghyn biylep otyrghan sheneu­nik­terding qazaq siyaqty últty, Qazaqstannyng dalasyn, jerin bilmegen­diginen oryn alghan qasiret. Áytpese múnyng astarynda sayasy mәn joq. Jasyratyny joq, Kenes Odaghyn biylegen Sta­linning de, Goloshekinning de tolymdy bilimi bolmaghan.

Sondyqtan da ózderi jýrgizip otyrghan sayasattyng mәnin jete týsinbegen. Ekeui de qazaqty bilimdi, otyryqshy halyq etemiz, jarylqaymyz dep oilaghan. Olar qazaqtyng dalasyn mal­gha bay, et pen sýti sarqylmaytyn búlaqtay kór­di. Sóitip, kýshtep újymdastyrudyng óte dóreki formasyn jýrgizip, et dayyndaudyng dalbasa nauqanyn bastaghan.

ORYS NADAN BOLGhAN

- Sizding sózinizden bayqaghanymyz: qazaqtyng bes batpan qasireti - asharshylyqqa Sovet ýkimeti kinәli emes siyaqty. Alayda bizden basqa Odaq qúramyndaghy elder sol jyldary opat bolghan qúrbandary ýshin Reseyden qún daulap, jauapqa tartpaq oilary bar ekenin sezdirip jýr...

- Men osy asharshylyq turaly tarihy shyndyqty zertteu barysynda, aghylshynnyng tarihshysy Sergey Shoukov degen ghalymmen tanystym. Ekeumizding qorytyndymyz bireu - ashtyqqa basy Stalinnen bastalatyn totalitarlyq sayasat kinәli. Al qughyn-sýrginge keler bolsaq, býkil Odaqtaghy konslagerilerde orys últynyng azamattary da jatqan. Sondyqtan ashtyqqa da, qughyn-sýrginge de orys últyn kinәlau­dyng jóni joq. Olardyng bar kinәsi Qazaqstangha jappay qonys audarulary boldy. Qazaq jerine qonys audarghan orys sharualary bizding halyqtan ótken nadan bolghan.

- Degenmen osy jyldary qazaqtyng basyndaghy qasiretting basqa halyqtardan auyr bolghanyn joqqa shyghara almaytyn shygharsyz?

- Áriyne, asharshylyqtyng zardaby odaqtas respublikalar ishinde Qazaq­stan­gha auyr soqty. Shyghyn da qazaq últynan kóp shyqty. Óitkeni Stalin óndi­risti damytudy kózdep, 1921-25 jyldary shetelden traktor jasaytyn stanoktar aldyrtyp, olardy Reseyding iri qalalaryna ornatty. Oghan júmysshylar shaqyrdy. Bas-ayaghy 2 million adam osy júmysqa tartyldy. Endi olardy etpen qamtamasyz etu ýshin, Stalin qazaq jerine kóz tikti. Halyqty kýshtep újymdastyryp, maldaryn tiri­dey jinap, bauday qyra bastady. «Lenigradskoe myaso», «Moskovskoe myaso» degen ortalyqtar sol kezde qúrylghan.

Jasyratyny joq, 1991 jyl­gha deyin qazaqtyng qoyy Mәs­keuding temirjol stansiyalarynan manyrap týsip jatty. Adam shyghyny men mal shyghynynyng taghy bir sebebi - bizding Reseyge otar el bolghandyghymyzdan. Tarihta otar elding jaghdayy eshqashan onghan emes. Osy orayda oqyrmandardyng esine asharshylyq qúrbandary men qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandarynyng ekeui eki týrli nәubet ekenin ashyq aita ketu kerek. Uaqyty jaghynan bir mezgilde jәne birdey bappen jazalanghany bolmasa, sebep-saldary úqsamaydy.

Býgingi ýkimetting bylyqtyryp otyrghany da - osy. Olar tariyhqa tiyisti bagha bergende, 1930-1933 jyldardaghy ashar­shy­­lyqtan ólgender men 1937-1938 jyldardaghy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryn jalpylay «Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary» dep atap ketti. Mening ishimning ashityny osy ghoy. Ol ekeui - mýlde eki basqa tariyh.

Asharshylyq kezinde qazaq jerinde qazaqtan basqa bir últ ashtyqtan ólgen joq. Ol jyldar qazaqqa ghana tóngen qasiret jәne topas adamnyng qolymen jasal­ghan qastandyq boldy. Jer betinen qazaqty birjola qúrtyp jiberuge niyettengen Sovet ýkimetining haram sayasaty. Al 1937-1938 jyldardaghy әreket - sýt betindegi qaymaqtardy syryp alugha qam jasalghan qandy jyldar. Men osy eki tarih turaly qúpiya múraghatta jәne respublikalyq sanaq basqarmasynda istegen­dik­ten tolyq bilemin.

- Qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryna kýshtep újymdastyru men asharshylyqtyng sebebinen shetelge bosqyn bolyp ketken qarakózder jata ma?

- Újymdastyru men asharshylyq sebebining baratyn jeri - bireu. Yaghny ekeui de - qazaq últynyng basyndaghy qasiret. Al osy nәubetten kórshiles elderge bosqyn bolghan qazaqtardy búl tizimge kirgizuge bolmaydy. Áriyne, sarandyqtan emes, jóni solay. Óitkeni ashtyq pen újymdastyru nauqanynda aman-esen shetel asyp ketken bolsa, onda onyng úrpaqtary qazir ósip-ónip otyr. Endeshe, olar nege qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary bolugha tiyis? Eger olar shekarada nemese elge qaytyp kelgennen keyin jazalansa, onda olar qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary bola alady. Qalay aitsaq ta, kenestik totalitarlyq jýie qazaqqa auyr soqty. Halyqty ruhany jaghynan azghyndatyp, materialdyq jaghynan kóp shyghyngha úshyratty.

- Tarihshy retinde sol nәubet jyldary bolghan adam men mal shyghynyn mólsherlep aita alasyz ba?

- 1930 jyldyng mausym aiynan 1933 jyldyng mausymyna deyingi aralyqtaghy asharshylyq qúrbandarynyng jalpy sany 3 million 379500 adamnan asyp jyghylady. Múnyng 1 millionnan astamy bosqyn esebinde kórshi­les elderge ketken. Sonda ýsh jyl ishindegi naqty qúrbandardyng sany 2 million 200 myndy qúrap, halyqtyng 49 payyzdyq ólshemin kórsetedi. Búdan basqa 1921-1924 jyldar aralyghyndaghy birinshi ashtyq kezinde 800 mynday adam qyrylghan. Búghan Azamat soghysyndaghy shyghyndy qossaq, 1 milliongha juyq bolady. Al 1937-1938 jyldardaghy sayasy qúrbandar sany 40 myng shamasynda. Oghan basqa da sebeptermen qúrban bolghandardy, mysaly, sosialistik menshikti qorghau zany negizinde jәne kontrevolusiyalyq qoz­ghalystardaghy shyghyndardy qosqanda, 1 millionnan taghy da asyp ketedi. Keybir derekter boyynsha, 1917-19, 1921-23, 1928, 1931-33 jyldar aralyghyndaghy barlyq zobalannan jalpy 4 million adam kóz júmghan. Búl kórsetkishke yqtimal tabighy ósimdi qosyp eseptegende, jalpy shyghyn sany 10 milliondy qúraydy.

Mal basynyng shyghyny jayynda aitsaq, múraghat qújattarynda sol jyldary qazaq jerinde 40 millionan astam iri-úsaq mal bolghan eken. Újymdastyrudan keyin 4 million bas mal qalypty.

RU-TAYPA TARIHYNAN NEGE QORQAMYZ?

- Talas myrza, Astanada 1991 jyldan keyingi tarihty jazatyn institut ashylypty. Qabyrghaly ýlken tarih ghylymy ýshin 19 jyldyq belgili uaqyttyq tarihty jazudyng ne keregi bar dep oilaysyz?

- Bizding Qazaq Últtyq uniyversiy­tet studentterine Japoniyanyng «Kokkaydo» uniyversiytetining professory Yamo To myrza kelip leksiya oqyp jatyr. Sol kisi: «Japon tarihshylarynyng ýshten biri ghana el tarihyn jazumen ainalysady. Eki bóligi shetelderding tarihyn zert­teydi», - degen pikir aitty. Óitkeni olar óz elderi­ning tarihyn býge-shigesine deyin zerttep, zerdelep bolypty. Talas tudyratynday tarihtyng aqtandaq jyldary mýlde joq eken.

Al bizde she? Bizde býgingi tәuelsiz­dikting tarihyn qoyyp, qazaqtyng qalyptasu tarihynyng ózi tolyq zerttelgen joq. Qazaqty qúraytyn 45 ru-taypa shejiresining shyghu tórkini әli anyqtalmaghan. Biz «Alash» tarihy zertteu ortalyghynda biraz júmys jasap, 30 tomdyq enbek shyghardyq. Sonda bir bayqaghanym - biylikte otyrghan she­neu­nik­ter ru-taypa tarihynan ólerdey qorqady eken. Ony ózderimen әngimeles­kende bildim. Al tәuelsizdikten songhy tarihty zerttep jazugha kelsek, qazaq tarihy ýshin ol da kerek. Jazylsyn, zert­telsin. Kerek­tisin úrpaq ózderi tauyp oqidy. Biraq bizding tarihtyng tereng jazyla qoyatynyna kýmәnim bar.

- Nege?

- Óitkeni bizding tarihshylar «Mәdeny múra» baghdarlamasymen shetelden qazaq tarihyna qatysty 5 myngha juyq qúndy dýnie tauypty. Búl kórsetkishti preziydent Nazarbaevtyng ózi aityp otyr. Biraq sol jazbalar múraghattarda shang basyp jatyr. Eshkim paydalanghan joq. Sebebi, qazirgi zamanda ghylymmen esi dúrys adam ainalyspaytyn boldy ghoy. Óitkeni jalaqy shayaqygha jetpeydi. Sondyqtan ghylymmen ainalysatyn ghalymdardyng kóbi eki-ýsh oqu ornynda sabaq berip, bordyng shanyn jútyp jýr. Degenmen salystyrmaly týrde aitsaq, QazÚU-de ústazdargha tólenetin jalaqy birshema jaqsy. Múny aitpay ketuge bolmas. Biraq jaghdaylary birshama tәuir Últtyq uniyversiytetting az ghana ústazdary ýlken tarihtyng qay jyrtyghyn jamasyn? Eger biz ghylymgha baghyttalghan bas­qaru jýiesin ózgertpesek, qazaq tarihy eshqashan tolyqqandy jazylmaydy.

TARIYHQA QIYaNAT JALGhASUDA

- Tarihta han, batyr, biylerding izgi isteri jayynda artynda óshpes iz qalghan ghoy. Ony bir-birden atap otyrudyng qajeti joq shyghar. Osy orayda tәuelsiz Qazaqstannyng preziydenti Nazarbaevtan keler úrpaqqa qanday tarih qalady dep oilaysyz?

- Qalay aitsaq ta, Núrsúl­tan Nazarbaev qazaq halqynyng óz aldyna derbes el boluyna  enbek sinirip keledi. Ony joqqa shyghara almaymyn. Alayda parlamenttegi ýsh deputattyng ol kisini «últ kóshbasshysy» mәrtebesine úsynghan iydeya­sy dúrys bolghan joq. Birinshiden, búl - jaghympazdyq. Ekinshiden, Nazarbaev «últ kóshbasshysy» emes, ol - «han» degen mәrtebege layyq túlgha. Bizding tarihta handyq biylik ómir sýrgen. Qazir Japoniyada, Úly­brita­niyada, Ispaniyada imperatorlyq basqaru jýiesi saqtalghan. Bizge de sonday basqaru formasy kerek edi.

Qazaq - rugha, jerge, jýzge bólingish halyq. Sol ýshin bizge tóbeden qarap otyra­tyn ruhany túlgha kerek. Onyng qyzmeti - halyqty úiystyrushy bolyp, aty «Han» dep atalugha tiyis. Al basqa memlekettik, qoghamdyq, sayasy júmystarmen preziydent, ministrler ainalysqany jón.

Japon Imperatory eshqanday memlekettik mәseleni sheshe almaydy. Biraq ol japon halqynyng basyn qosyp, ruhany túlgha qyzmetin atqaryp otyr. Bizding preziydent Nazarbaev ta - sonday lauazymgha layyq adam. Sonda qazaq bir hangha baghynyp, birauyzdylyqqa kelip, ruhany jaghynan birigetin edi. Qysqasy, bizge «han» kerek. Biraq ol memleket basshysy emes, últ basshysy qyzmetin atqaruy shart. Al memleket basshysy - preziydent bolady.

- Siz qazaq tarihy tereng zerttelmegeni jóninde pikir aittynyz. Biraq keybir mýiizi qaraghayday tarihshylardyng kandidattyq, doktorlyq dissertasiyalary óte úsaq taqyrypty arqau etken júmys eken. Mәselen, Qazaqstandaghy bir zauyttyng nemese kommunaldyq sharuashylyqtyng tarihy degen siyaqty...

- Qazaqstanda ghylymy ataq beru jýiesi ózin-ózi әbden tozdyryp boldy. Óitkeni búl - kenestik kezden qalghan eski jýie. Men 46 jasqa deyin dissertasiya jazumen uaqytym ótti. Tarihshylardyng barlyq altyn uaqyttary osylay zaya ketip, ghylym jayynda qalyp jatyr. Jasyratyny joq, ghylymy ataq beru dәstýri jemqorlyqqa ainaldy. Dissertasiyany satyp, kóshirip, basqagha jazdyryp alatyndar shyghyp jatyr. Jalpy, dissertasiya ghylym bolmaydy. Olardan kitap bolyp basylyp, oqyrman qolyna jetkeni de shamaly.

- Osydan eki-ýsh jyl búryn mektep bitirushi týlekter ÚBT-da tarih pәninen test tapsyrmau turaly memleket dengeyinde qauly shyghyp, keyin halyqtyng qarsylyghymen toqtap qaldy. Sol jyldary joghary oqu oryndaryndaghy studentterge de «Qazaqstan tarihy» pәnin oqytu qajet emes degen qisyq sheshim taghy shyqty. Tariyhqa osynday qiyanattar jasaugha kim núsqau beredi, osy?

- Áriyne, tariyhqa jasalghan onday kereghar josparlar әli toqtaghan joq. Múnday pikirdi shygharyp jýrgender biylikte otyrghan toghysharlar ghoy. Olardyng oiynsha, qazaqta jazbasha tarih joq eken. Bary - auyzsha saqtalghan anyz, ertegiler siyaqty.

Sondyqtan qazaqtyng bayyr­ghy qalyptasu, payda bolu tarihyn biluge, oqushylargha oqytugha kóp sheneunik qúlyqsyz. Olar qazaqta 1991 jyldan keyin ghana tarih qalyptasty dep oilaydy. Nazarbaevty ghana qazaq halqynyng últtyq túlghasy retinde elestetedi. Arghy tarihymyzdaghy handar men biyler, batyrlar men qayratkerlerding bәri búl arada auyzgha alynbaydy. Olardy joqqa shygharghysy keledi. Qazaqtyng jeri, shekarasy joq, hany men memleketi bolmaghan degen pikirler sodan órbip jýr ghoy.

- Ángimenizge raqmet!

Júqamyr ShÓKE,

«D»

«Obshestvennaya pozisiya»

(proekt «DAT» № 21 (58) ot 26 maya 2010 g.