«Abay.kz» portalynyng qonaghy jazushy Ghabbas Qabyshúlymen súhbat forumgha qatysyp súraq qoyghan oqyrmanmen  jalghasyn tauyp ketti. Búl bizding saytta búryn-sondy bolmaghan «dәstýr» ekenin jalpy kópke eskerte otyryp, qart qalamgerding oily әngimesine taghy da kezek bergendi jón kórdik.

- Imanghaly turaly ashyp aitynyzshy. Ol adam naghyz últjandy deydi. Ras pa? Imanghaliy Tasmaghambetov  preziydent bolsa, qazaqtyng óz jerinde mәrtebesi artyp, bedeli óse me? Sosyn kishi jýzding bólinip Oralda jasaghaly jatyrghan qúryltayy turaly aitsanyz. Qoldaysyz ba? Shaqyrsa, barasyz ba?

- Imanghaly últshyl.Preziydent bola alady.Qaytalayyn: eger ol biylikke Elisinning eshbir qateligin aitpaytyn bolyp barghan Putinning tonyn jamylyp barsa, halyq oghan alghys aita qoymaydy. Halyq qazirgi biylikten qajydy. Býgingi qatelikterdi atap-atap týzetu bolmasa, biteujara qala beredi. Kishi jýz qazaqtarynyng qúryltayyn estidim, biraq әngime ózegi ne mәsele eken, ony bilmeymin. Shaqyrsa bararmyn.

- Ghaziz Aldamjarov kommunisterding sózin sóileuden әri asa almay jýr ghoy. Memleket basshysyna layyq irilik te, salmaqty sóz de aita qoyghan joq әzirge. Sizdi bәtualy әngime aita ma dep oilap edim, bastamay jatyp jauabynyzdan bireulerding yghyna jyghyla bastaghanynyz bayqaldy

«Abay.kz» portalynyng qonaghy jazushy Ghabbas Qabyshúlymen súhbat forumgha qatysyp súraq qoyghan oqyrmanmen  jalghasyn tauyp ketti. Búl bizding saytta búryn-sondy bolmaghan «dәstýr» ekenin jalpy kópke eskerte otyryp, qart qalamgerding oily әngimesine taghy da kezek bergendi jón kórdik.

- Imanghaly turaly ashyp aitynyzshy. Ol adam naghyz últjandy deydi. Ras pa? Imanghaliy Tasmaghambetov  preziydent bolsa, qazaqtyng óz jerinde mәrtebesi artyp, bedeli óse me? Sosyn kishi jýzding bólinip Oralda jasaghaly jatyrghan qúryltayy turaly aitsanyz. Qoldaysyz ba? Shaqyrsa, barasyz ba?

- Imanghaly últshyl.Preziydent bola alady.Qaytalayyn: eger ol biylikke Elisinning eshbir qateligin aitpaytyn bolyp barghan Putinning tonyn jamylyp barsa, halyq oghan alghys aita qoymaydy. Halyq qazirgi biylikten qajydy. Býgingi qatelikterdi atap-atap týzetu bolmasa, biteujara qala beredi. Kishi jýz qazaqtarynyng qúryltayyn estidim, biraq әngime ózegi ne mәsele eken, ony bilmeymin. Shaqyrsa bararmyn.

- Ghaziz Aldamjarov kommunisterding sózin sóileuden әri asa almay jýr ghoy. Memleket basshysyna layyq irilik te, salmaqty sóz de aita qoyghan joq әzirge. Sizdi bәtualy әngime aita ma dep oilap edim, bastamay jatyp jauabynyzdan bireulerding yghyna jyghyla bastaghanynyz bayqaldy

- Ghazizben eki mәrte az-maz әngimeleskenim bolmasa, syrlasqan emespin. Sózderine qarap ýmit artyp jýrmin.Ornyqty. Oi-pikiri ondy dep bilem. Kommunisterdi isten alghysyz etetin әdet shyqqany ókinishti. Olar býgingi basshylarsha,sheneuniktershe halyqty aldamay sóileydi.Olar keshegi kenestik zamandy jiyirek eske alsa, ol týsinikti. Ol kezde oqu tegin boldy, medisina tegin jәrdemdesti, joghary oryndaryn bitirgen jastardy júmys kýtip túrdy. Ol jaman ba edi? Býgin diplomdy júmyssyz jastar kóp. "Auylgha baryndar!" degen úryn shyqty. Ol qaladaghy júmyssyzdardyng sanyn azaytu sayasaty. Al auylda ne júmys bar? Bәri jekeshelendirildi. Jeke qojalyq iyelerine artyq auyz kerek pe? Kóptegen auyl qylayaghy auyzsugha jarymay otyr. Jastargha auylgha bar deydi eken, qay auylgha qay mamandyqtan neshe qyz-jigit kerek, olargha enbekaqyny kim tóleuge tiyis? Keshe iygi isterding bәrin ózderi úiymdastyrghan býgingi qartang komumnister osyny qatty aitsa, ol aiyp pa? Ata-әjeleriniz, әke-shesheleriniz, agha-apaylarynyz kezinde elge adal enbek etken kommunister bolsa,olardy kinәlap, olardan jerip ketken joq shygharsyzdar? Nendey jәitti bolsyn jalpylap sóileu әdildik emes.

- Ghabeke, siz ben bizding kózimiz tiri kezde qazaq tilining kósegesi kógere me? Álde biylik basyndaghy sanasy orystanyp ketken, qazaq tilining órisi keneyse jyly oryntaghynan aiyrylyp qalam dep qoryqqandardyng qanjyghasyna baylanyp kete bere me?

- Qaytalayyn: bizding ókimet, ýkimet, parlament qazaq tilinde - memlekettik tilde sóilemeyinshe tilimiz de, halqymyz da kógermeydi!Sonday betbúrys bolsa,shýldirlep jýrgenderding bәri jol jiyeginde qalady!

- Ghalymjan songhy jyldarda shetele jýrgendikten, preziydenttikke týse almaydy. Qazaqstan preziydenti songhy 10 jylda Qazaqstanda túruy kerek. Sondyqtan Serikbolsyn, Jarmahan, Ghaziz Aldamjarov nemse Imanghaly Tasmaghambetov dep sozyp túrghansha, kózinizdi ashyp qarap shyndyqty aitynyzshayshy. Bolashaq preziydent IMANGhALY bolsa jaqsy bolady dep. Sizge renjigen oppozisiyanyng serke shaldary "bergen taylaqtaryn qaytyp alsyn!" Sizden el kópti kórgen adam retinde shyndyq pen bәtualy sóz kýtedi...

- Sizsiz de kózimdi ashyp qarap, shyndyqty ghana aityp jýrgen qazaq ekenime kýdiktene qaray berdiniz-au. Qaytalayyn: Imanghaly da,Qyrymbek te, basqa Azamattar da preziydent bola alady. Ghalymjan nege týse almaydy? Emdelip shette jýrgenine ekinshi jyl.Qazaqstan azamattyghynan shyghyp kóship ketken joq.Odan qorqyp, ony qara qaqpanyna qayyra týsirudi kókseushi biylikting pәle-jalasy ózin tapsyn deniz

- Qazaq audarmashylary onyng ishinde diny kitaptardy audaru turaly aitpaghan eken. Ókinishti. Óte ókinishti.

- Estuimshe, diny kitaptardy talghamay audaryp jýrgender tanymal audarmashylar emes, býgingi maltapqysh jornalshylar kórinedi jәne olar óz aty-jónderin jazbay, býrkenshik
atty paydalanady desedi. Ol audarmalar turaly pikir aitatyn әdeby synshy emespin. Bir súraqtaghy jas talaptar turaly da osyny aittym, olardyng ózim aldyratyn әdeby gәzet-jornaldardaghy әngimelerin, ólenderin oqimyn, "mynau myqty!" dep aitar synshylyghym shamaly, al kitaptaryn, gәzet-jornal ataulynyng bәrin satyp aludyng reti joq.

- Ghabbas agha "әdildigim ýshin múrnyma shertpek tiydi" depti. Osy ýshin 1983 jyly Qazaqstan KP iydeologiya hatshysynyng maqtap qyzmetke qoyghanyn, al 1987 jyly "onbaghansyn!" dep qyzmetten alghanyn jazypty. Dәl osy jeri qisyngha kelmeydi. 1983 jyly qyzmetke qoyghan iyd. hatshy Kәkimjan Qazybaev óz tuysy - nayman. Al 1987 jyly qyzmetten alghan Kamaliydenov boluy kerek. Ony júrttyng bәri de biledi. Eger Qazybaev qoyyp, Qazybaev alsa, onda solay dep aitugha bolar edi. 1987 jyly kim ne kórmedi?

- Beu, aghayyn! Marqúm Qazybaevtyng aruaghyna tiyispeniz. Ol rushyl bolghan joq, maghan senbeseniz, býginde kózi tiri dostarynan súranyz. Jazushylar odaghynda otyz jyl júmys istegende rushyldyq, jershildik minez kórsetken bolsam, maghan isi týsken, býgin bar qazaq, orys,úighyr, nemis, korey aqyn-jazushylardyng kez kelgeninen súrap bilersiz,eger óte kerek etseniz. Al "Ara-Shmelidegi" jyldarymda mening ýstimnen shaghym jazghandar Zaqash Kamaliydenovke ghana barmaghan, odan asyp Kolbinge jazghan, barghan, al Zaqashta Kolbinning tapsyrmasyn oryndamasqa laj bolyp pa? Mening izime it salghan - eki sózining biri "tovarish Kolbiyn" bolghan Alibert Ustinov. Ortalyq komiytetting baspasóz sektorynda istegen, atyn úmytyp qaldym, keyin "Kazpravdagha" redaktor bolghan bir jalbaqay da jýikemdi biraz tozdyrdy.Siz tótelep: "...Ony júrttyng bәri biledi" depsiz, júrttyng bәrin kuә etpegende,sizding ózinizding bilgeniniz meni rushylddardyng qataryna qosa salu ghana boldy ghoy.

- "...Júrttyng bәri biledi" degende Kamaliydenovty júrttyng biletinin aityp otyrmyn. Al Qazybaevty rushyl dep jazbaghan siyaqtymyn. Keshiriniz.

- Oqasy joq. Men - eshqashan eshkimge renjimeuge tyrysatyn shalmyn. Bәrimiz de
pendemiz ghoy. "...Qazybaev óz tuysy nayman" degeninizge qarata aitqanym edi. Sizding de kónilinizde kólenke qalmasyn, aghayyn!

- Ghabbas agha, qazaqta bolashaq bar ma? Bizding músylman kórshilerimizding barlyghynyng basy ósip jatyr, al bizding elde qazaghymyzdyng qansha ekenin eshkim bilmeydi. Ótken sanaqtyng jayy belgili, bizdi bireu: preziydent 67, ýkimet 65, stattyng songhy basshysy 62 payyz dese, SRU 56 payyz degen eken bir basylymda. Sonymen BAQ-tardyng biz tәp-tәuir ósip jatyrmyz degenine sene almaymyn. Basy óspegen halyq óshedi.Siz últymyzdyng bolashaghynan qoryqpaysyz ba?

- Sayt súraqtary bastalghanda-aq әrqily oigha ketip edim.Sonyng maghan eng auyry halyqtyng býgini, bolashaghy turaly ne aitarymdy bilmey qinalamyn-au edi. Mine, sol mәsele kóldenendedi... Qay halyqtyng bolsyn taghdyry elining dizgin-shylbyryn ústaghan kisining is-әreketimen baylanysty ghoy. Jogharghy Kenes deputattarynyng úigharymymen preziydenttikke saylanghan N. Nazarbaev Qazaqstan júrtshylyghynyng nesibesi sol júrtshylyqtyng ózine ghana búiyruy kerektigin jete oilasa,auyl sharuashylyghyn alty aida "reformalaudan" saqtay túrsa, múnayymyz ben gazymyzdan, t.b. baylyghymyzdan týsetin qarjynyng әrbir tengesin qatang eseptetip, yryn-jyryngha saldyrmay,negizgi iyesi - halyqtyng әl-auqatyna júmsattyrsa, onda biz, Nazarbaevtyng ә degende ózi aitqanday, 2-nshi Kuveyt bolatyn edik. Amal ne, "ústaugha ózimizding qarjymyz jeter emes" dep (ol beker sóz) ónerkәsipti joltapqysh mashkevichterge berip qoydyq, al olar 5-6 jylda milliarder bolyp shygha keldi.El baylyghy, sóitip, ishki-syrtqy alayaqtargha, obyrlargha jem etildi. Qarapayym halyq kedeyshilikke tap boldy. Halyqtyng neshe payyzy bay, neshe payyzy kedey, neshe payyzy qayyrshy ekenin tiyisti oryndar ashyp aitpaydy. Sonymen, halyqtyng ósuine kelsek, ol túrmystyq jaghdayymen tikeley baylanysty.Aldaghy uaqytta jaghdayy jaqsarsa, halyq sany óse bastaydy.Búghan deyingi ósuimiz shetten kóship kelgen qandastarymyzdyng esebinen boldy, búrynghy túrghyn halyq ósip qaryq bolmady dep bilem.Qazaqtyng sany, songhy sanaqtan keyin qansha uaqyt ótse de, әli anyq aitylmauynda osynday gәp bar. Áriyne, qazaqtyng bolashaghy bar,tek sonyng jarqyn boluyn oilaytyn, halyqqa jan-jýregimen berilgen basshylyq bolsyn deniz. Sózim sozylyp ketti, renjimegeysiz.

Alla jarylqasyn, Ghabbas agha! Abayshyldargha, aghayyndargha aityp jýrgenim osy ghoy - aramyzda alqaly aqsaqalymyz bolsa , "basymyzgha baq qonady" dep. Ádep te ornaydy, auyz birlikke de kelemiz. Abayshyldardyng qúlaghyna altyn syrgha, atasyzdardan Qúday saqtasyn. Isatay.

- Isatay myrza, "Aqsaqaldy auyl azbas" degen ghoy qazekem. Sony bala jastan estip ósken qara domalaqtardyng biri boldym da, ózi jaqsy bilse de artyqtyq etpes dep oilap, N. Nazarbaev preziydent saylanysymen oghan hat jyzyp (qazekemning "bir jerine qaramay" degenin eskermey), bylay dep edim: "...halyq sharuashylyghymyzdyng әrbir salasynan júrt qúrmettep jýrgen bir adamdy alyp, Aqyldastar, yaghny Aqsaqaldar
alqasyn ústanyz. Olardy aiyna bir ret jinap alyp, qay isimiz ong bolyp, qay isimiz
aghat bolyp jatyr, kәne, ashyq sóileseyik" dep halyqtyng oi-pikirin solar arqyly bilip otyrsanyz qatelespeysiz". Ádebiyet salasynan: Túmanbay Moldaghaliyev, Qadyr Myrzaliyev, Sәken Jýnisov ýsheuining birin aludy úsyndym. Ákimshiliginen: "Hatynyzdy
aldyq" degen jauap keldi de, sonymen tyndy. Preziydentke onday kenesti talay adam
bergeni sózsiz, biraq eskerilmedi. Eger "Aqsaqaldar alqasyn" ústap otyrsa,keyin
jasalghan qatelikterding kóbi bolmas edi dep oilaymyn. Kim bilsin... Al sizge, Isake, jyly sóziniz ýshin rahmet, aman-esen bolynyzdar!

- Ghabbas aghamyz sonsha aitqan, jauap bergen, biraq týk aitpaghan, jauap bermegen kýiinde qalypty. Yaghni, ashylmapty. Jalpy belgili bir taqyryp bolmasa, múnday jamyrau-súhbat bekershilik siyaqty. «Abay.kz» azamattaryna ótinish, kelesi súhbattardy bir taqyryptyng ayasynda órbitsenizder eken. Mysaly "Ghabbas agha Nazarbaev turaly", nemese "Ghabbas agha jәne oppozisiya" degen siyaqty.

-  Úsynysynyz óte dúrys! Biraq "týk aitpaghan,jauap bermegen kýiinde qalypty" degeniniz, Osekeng - Ospanhan Áubәkirov aitqan "kóz mayymdy kóje qatyq etkenimdi" eskermegendik siyaqty. Qaytalap aitayyn, úsynysynyz óte dúrys, qozy-laqsha jamyraghan súraq oiynnyng tu-talaqayyn shygharady eken, múny Abai. kz újymy da eskeretin bolar.

(Sony)