- Jaqynda «Zonakz.net» iyn­ternet gazetinde Qazaq­stan Músylmandar Diny Basqar­masynyng diny aghartu jәne nasihat bólimining mengerushisi Ábdimýtәlip Dәurenbekovting sopylyqty teris­tegen súhbaty shyqty. Oghan «Ekstremisty-sufisty» dep at qoyypty. Shyndyghynda ekstremizm men sufizm bir úghym ba? Ekeuinin  ara jigin qalay ajy­ratugha bolady?

- IYә, qazir sopylyq turaly tereng bilmeytinder teris pikirlerin qarsha boratyp jatyr. Olardyng sopylyqqa qatysty pikirleri sudyng dәmi turaly mysalgha úqsaydy. Biraq onyng ashy, әlde túshy ekenin mýldem ajyratyp bere almaydy. Sebebi búl ilim turaly sol jolda jýrgenderden basqalary jarytyp eshtene aitpaydy. Shyn sopylyqtyng mәninde ekstremizm týgil fanatizm (fanatizm yaghni, arabsha «taassub») de bolmaydy. Onyng mәni - ar, maqsaty, múraty - Alla. Ol - óte tereng ilim. Bilmeytinder, eng bolmasa, bilmeymin dese,  Qúdaydyng sýigen qúly bolar edi. Býgingi tanda «bas basyna mýfty bolghandar» qoghamdy da, dinimizdi de qúbyjyq  etip kórsetuge jarysa atsalysyp jatqandyqtaryn sezinbeydi.

- Sopylardy qazir «mýshriyk» deushiler de shyghyp jatyr. Ghalam­tordaghy «Asyl arna» saytynda «sopylyq islamda joq» dep jazypty. Osy pikirding anyghyn bilmey dal boldyq. Búghan ne aitasyz?

- Jaqynda «Zonakz.net» iyn­ternet gazetinde Qazaq­stan Músylmandar Diny Basqar­masynyng diny aghartu jәne nasihat bólimining mengerushisi Ábdimýtәlip Dәurenbekovting sopylyqty teris­tegen súhbaty shyqty. Oghan «Ekstremisty-sufisty» dep at qoyypty. Shyndyghynda ekstremizm men sufizm bir úghym ba? Ekeuinin  ara jigin qalay ajy­ratugha bolady?

- IYә, qazir sopylyq turaly tereng bilmeytinder teris pikirlerin qarsha boratyp jatyr. Olardyng sopylyqqa qatysty pikirleri sudyng dәmi turaly mysalgha úqsaydy. Biraq onyng ashy, әlde túshy ekenin mýldem ajyratyp bere almaydy. Sebebi búl ilim turaly sol jolda jýrgenderden basqalary jarytyp eshtene aitpaydy. Shyn sopylyqtyng mәninde ekstremizm týgil fanatizm (fanatizm yaghni, arabsha «taassub») de bolmaydy. Onyng mәni - ar, maqsaty, múraty - Alla. Ol - óte tereng ilim. Bilmeytinder, eng bolmasa, bilmeymin dese,  Qúdaydyng sýigen qúly bolar edi. Býgingi tanda «bas basyna mýfty bolghandar» qoghamdy da, dinimizdi de qúbyjyq  etip kórsetuge jarysa atsalysyp jatqandyqtaryn sezinbeydi.

- Sopylardy qazir «mýshriyk» deushiler de shyghyp jatyr. Ghalam­tordaghy «Asyl arna» saytynda «sopylyq islamda joq» dep jazypty. Osy pikirding anyghyn bilmey dal boldyq. Búghan ne aitasyz?

- Sopylyq tariqatqa taqualar ghana ene alady. Ózi "mýshriyk, ózi mýrtet" adamnyng tariqat jolyn qalauy - tipten aqylgha syimaytyn absurd. Óitkeni, sopynyng tariqatqa óz erkimen kirui shart. Mýrid bolu kerek, zorlap eshkim eshkimdi sopy qyla almaydy. Tariqattan búryn sharighat bar. Osyny tereng mengergender ghana tariqattan joghyn izdeydi. Qazirgi tanda qoghamymyzda sopy, sopylyq, dәruish, zikir jәne zikirshiler nemese tariqatshylardy islamgha jat dýniyetanymdaghy jeke aghym retinde kórsetu beleng alyp barady. Sopylyqty synap, onyng negizgi ústanymdary men iydeyalaryn joqqa shygharu әreketi Qúran men hadis shenberinde jýrip jatyr. Yaghni, sopylyq tanymdaghy әrbir úghym, kategoriya, simvoldar men túghyrlardyng Qúranda oryn alghan-almaghandyghy negizgi ólshemge ainaldy. Búl jerde tek salafiyler ghana emes, islamdaghy barlyq aghymdar, mazhabtar, tariqattar ózderining negizgi ólshemi retinde Qúrandy tanidy. Sonymen «Mening hikmetterim - Qúrannyng mәni» degen Yasauy ilimi, mәdeniyeti jәne jolyna degen tarihy sanagha qúrmetting ornyna ony qaralau, joqqa shygharu beleng alyp otyr. Yasauy mәdeniyeti de Qúrangha negizdelgen. Ókinishke oray, býgin ony maqsatty týrde basqasha týsindirip, tanytugha tyrysushylyq tendensiyasy basym. Mine, osy betperde, osy qalyp, búqaralyq aqparat qúraldarynda jii tilge tiyek etiletin boldy. Tarihy qúndylyq kózine ainalghan, dәstýrli músylmandyq týsinigimizding ainasy bolghan Yasauy múrasyn aksiologiyalyq qabyldau ayasynan shygharugha úmtylatyn kýshter nemese toptardyng belsendiligi kózge týsedi. Búghan qoghamdaghy din mәselesi, diny tanym men ghylymy tanym arasyndaghy ýilesimdilik pen tepe-tendikting bolmauy sebep bolsa, ekinshi jaqtaghy, yaghni, býgingi sopylyq joldaghylardyng ózderin qoghamgha tiyisti dәrejede týsindire almauy qúbylystyng basty komponenti der edik. Búqaralyq aqparat qúraldarynyng din men sayasat araqatynasyna nemqúrayly qarauy jәne dindi sayasy toptardyng qúralyna ainaldyruy da negizgi faktor. Álemdik jahandyq qúbylyspen birge kele jatqan islamofobiya, terrorlyq әreketting dinge, islamgha negizdeluine kóz júmushylyq, týsine almaushylyq siyaqty psihologiyalyq kedergilerding barlyghy, jalpy alghanda, diny tanymgha tirelip otyr. Qoghamymyzda syrtqy jәne ishki toptardyng әreketi arqyly tarihy sabaqtastyqqa, sanagha qarsy júmys jýrgizip, sopylyq turaly teris pighyl tudyryp jatyr.

- Negizinen sopylyqqa syn býgin ghana aitylyp jatqan joq qoy...

- Ras aitasyz, jalpy alghanda, sopylyq turaly aitylyp jatqan syn jana syn emes. Ol sonau VIII-IX ghasyrlardan bastau alatyn fikh pen kalam, sopylyq pen filosofiya nemese sharighat pen aqiqat arasyndaghy tanymdyq negizder arqyly payda bolghan, әli de jalghasyp keledi. Sopylyqty jeke din retinde, yaghny islamgha jat basqa aghym retinde kórsetu ýderisi tarihta ýzdiksiz qaytalandy. Osy dert býgin Qazaqstangha audy. Býgingi qoghamymyzda sopylyqty shiiylermen bir aghym retinde kórsetkisi keletinder de kezdesedi. Jasandy jәne maqsatty sufizmofobiya qúbylysy shyn mәninde islamdy órkeniyet, dýniyetanym jәne filosofiyalyq dәstýri bar din retinde qabyldaghysy kelmeytinderding әreketi (Qasaqana qarsy shyghu men týsinbesten, bilmesten qarsy shyghu eki týrli mәsele). Sopylyqqa, zikirge, әulie týsinigine qarsy shyghu degen Yasauigha, býkil tarihymyzgha, mәdeniyetimizge, sayyp kelgende, qazaq halqyna qarsy shyghu degen sóz. Óitkeni, Yasauiyden bastap Mәshhýr Jýsipke deyingi qazaq danalary sopylyq mәdeniyet negizinde oy tolghady. Búl qazaqtyng dәstýrli músylmandyq týsinigining ainasy - sopylyq mәdeniyet degen sóz.

Tariyhqa jýginsek, sopylyqty alghash ret joqqa shygharugha tyrysyp, dúshpandyq jasaghan shiitter jәne hariji, ghúlattar, imamiyler, zaidiyler bolatyn. Sunniyler sopylyqty dәl osy shi'a toptary sekildi joqqa shygharugha asyqqan emes, eshqanday kýpirlik ýkimin de bergen emes. Degenmen Ibn Hanbal, sopylyq turaly syrtqy ghibadatty (zahiry ibadat) әlsiretip, ornyna "tereng oilaudy" (tafakkur) qoyyp damytyp, osylaysha diny paryzdardan (ibaha) adamdy qútqaryp, ruhyn Allamen әrdayym dostyqta qosaqtap (hulul) din qaghidasyn búzady degen pikir taratty. Ibn Hanbaldyng shәkirti Ábu Zura sopylyq zyndyqtyn, әsirese rafiziylerding erekshe bir aghymy retinde kórsetti. Mutazila kalamshylary sopylyqtaghy Jaratushy men jaratylghandar arasyndaghy eki jaqty ortaq mahabbat iydeyasynyng maghynasyz ekendigin aityp, búl iydeya teoriyalyq jaghynan antropomorfizmge, praktikalyq jaghynan inkornasiyany negizdeydi dep tapty.

Áytse de sunniyler tarapynan sopylyq tyiym salynghan (haram) aghym retinde tanytylghan joq. Ábu Talip әl-Makkiyding (996 ó.) «Qút-ul-Qulub» (Jýrekting qúty), Ghazaliyding «Ihia-ul-Ulumiy-d-diyn» (Din ghylymdarynyng jandanuy) atty enbekteri búghan mýmkindik bermedi. Ibn Jauzi, Ibn Taymiya, Ibn Qayym siyaqty sopylyqqa jany qas kalamshy-oyshyldardyng ózderi Ghazaliyding danalyghy, kemeldigi aldynda bas iydi. Sopylyqtyng qas dúshpany Uahhaby aghymynyng qúrushysy, sufy Shaqiyqting ózi «Hatim iyl-Asamgha» týsindirme jazdyrghan.

Shyn mәninde «Sózding syrtqy qyrynyng «arghy jaghynan» mәn tabudy kózdegen sufiylerding negizgi qaynar búlaghy (ismailiy-batiniylerden) da tereng Qúrannyng mәnine jetu edi. Olardyng әdisinde batiniylerding jolyna qaraghanda, antropomorftyq, simvoldyq týsindirmeler az bolatyn. Sopylardyng ismailiylerge qaraghanda, Qúrandy óte tereng oqyp, úghynudyng eki әdisi arasynda ortaq tústary kóp bolatyn. Kerek deseniz, islam filosofiyasy men sufizm, fikh pen kalamdaghy Qúrannyng ruhyna jat kózqarastargha qarsy әdis qalyptastyrghan.

- Myna saraptamanyz qyzyq eken. Sopylyqty joqqa shygharghysy keletin toptargha nemese olardyng synyna qysqasha toqtalyp ótseniz...

- Birinshi syn, ghibadattyng formasy men mәnine baylanysty. Yaghni, ghibadattyng formasyn anyqtaytyn da, ghibadat etiletin de tek Bir Alla ghana. Búghan dau joq.

Ras, islam negizi boyynsha adamzat jәne basqa barlyq jәndikter Allany úlylau, oghan tabynu ýshin jaratyldy. Ár dinde Allagha tabynu formasy әr týrli. Islamda tabynu formasyn uaqytyn ritualdyq negiz retinde anyqtaghan Hz.Múhammed payghambar bolatyn. Sopylar búl ghibadat fenomeni shenberining syrtyna shyqqan emes. Ghibadattyng formasy men uaqytyn sol kýiinde qabyldaydy, sharighatty negizge alady. "Alladan basqa tabynar eshtene joq" (La maghbuda illa Alla) dep zikir salady. Ghibadattyng mәni men manyzyn, maqsaty men negizgi iydeyasyn tereng týsinedi. Olardyng ruhany jattyghulary ghibadatqa barar joldaghy ruhty әr týrli kedergiler men alandaushylyqtan aryltudyng metody ghana. Árbir zikir, sama, jýrekti shynayy ghibadat etuge dayyndap, Alla men adam arasyndaghy baylanys tiregin kýsheytuding qúraly, әdistemelik jýiesining túghyrlary.

Ekinshi syn, sopylyq payghambardyng sýnnetine, formasyna, sharighatqa sәikestigi nemese qayshylyghy: mysaly: zikir salu (Alla, Alla, hu, hu) ólen, raks, sama, shan, rubab - búlardy kýnaharlyq dep qaraydy. Búlar biydghat, yaghni, dinge keyinnen engen janashyldyq.

Sopylyqtyng alghashqy dәuirin degdarlyq (zuhd) kezeni deymiz. Degdarlyq sózdik túrghydan kónil bólmeu, azyrqanu, tәrk etu, odan bet búru degen maghynagha keledi. Al degdarlyqtyng termindik mәni - aqyretke bet búru ýshin dýniyeden bezu, qansha bay bolsa da, kónilinde dýniye, mýlikke, nәpsining qúmarlyghyna boy aldyrmau, shynayy diny ómir saltyna layyq, naghyz dindar bolu degen maghynalargha keledi. Degdarlyq Hz.Payghambar kezinde de bolghan. Osy degdarlyq sopylyqtyng alghashqy týri, kezeni. Degdarlyq tirshilik, ómir sýru formasy islamda uaqyt óte kele payda bolghan qúbylystarmen paralleli damydy. Qúran men hadiste degdarlyq turaly ayattar men payghambar oilary kóptep kezdesedi. Mysaly, "Barlyq pende óledi... Dýnie ótkinshi, aldamshy qyzyqtan basqa eshtenesi joq". "Búl dýniyening qyzyghy ótkinshi jәne óte az (qysqa), aqyret bolsa (o dýniye) Allany jýreginde úyalatqandar ýshin óte qayyrly. Sizge әli aqyl kirmegen be? ", "Aqyretke qaraghanda búl dýniyening nyghmetteri óte az, ótkinshi әri aldamshy bolsa da, olar (mol yrys berilgender) dýnie nyghmetterine quanady. Búl dýnie bir oiyn, qyzyq, ótkinshi, al aqyret, mine, naghyz ómir. Átten, (olar múny) bilmeydi", - osy mәndes ayattar kóp. Sopylar osy ayattardy ózderining "dýniye-jalghan" týsinikterine arqau etip alghan. Onyng ýstine "dýniye" sózdik túrghydan Alladan eng úzaq jer degen maghynagha keledi. Sopylardyng jaratylys konsepsiyasynda adam, ruh әleminen osy dýniyege synaq ýshin jiberilgen. Osylaysha, ruh әleminde Allamen birge "baqyt júrtynda" ómir sýrip jatqanda osy dýniyege eriksiz jiberilgen.

- Islamda sufizmning orny qanday? Yasauy ilimi sufizm be?

- Yasauy dýniyetanymynyng negizinde sopylyq jatyr. Sopylyq - basqa tanymdardan erekshe islamdyq dýniyetanym formasy. Sopylyq eshqashan islamgha syrttay oppozisiyalyq sipatta bolghan da emes! Sopylyq islamnyng mazmúny, mәni. Al forma men mazmún birtútas nәrse ghoy. Sopylyq islamnyn, músylmandardyng eng qiyn-qystau kezinde qorghaushysy bola bilgen. Sufizmning ishki mәnin ashyp týsindiruge bir maqala týgil, zertteushining ómiri de jetpeydi. Sondyqtan sopylyqtyng syrtqy qyryna qarap-aq onyng músylmandyq tarihyndaghy ornyn tanugha bolady. Mysaly, tarihta monghol shabuylyna qarsy, kubraiya, krestshilerge qarsy shaziliya, orystardyng otarlauyna qarsy Yasauia, naqshbandia, qalmaqtargha qarsy naqshbandia, Afrikada fransuz imperialisterine senusiya, tijaniya aghylshyndargha qarsy suhrauardiya tariqattary ýzdiksiz soghys jýrgizdi.  Kórdiniz be, syrtqy dúshpandargha qarsy túru tariqattar arqyly mýmkin bolghan edi. Búl soghys mәdeniyetin, erkindigin, azattyghyn, Otanyn qorghau ýshin jýrgizildi. Sonda sopylyq - islamgha oppozisiya ma? Joq әlde músylmandardyng ruhany tiregi me?  Ony óziniz saralanyz. Sopylyq islam órkeniyeti men mәdeniyetining músylmandyqtyng namysy, dinning ishki mәni, ózegi.

- 01.09.2010 kýni «Zonakz.net» internet gazetinde QMDB-nyng baspasóz hatshysy Onghar qajy Ómirbek QMDB pәtuәsin jariyalapty. Islamda zikir bar ma? Zikir turaly Qúran Kәrimde ne deydi? Jalpy «zikir» degen ne?

- Zikir, zikir salu Qúranda bar. Hadiste bar. Zikir turaly ayat kóp. Qúrannyng jeti atynyng biri - zikir. Demek zikir, Allany eske alu Allanyng búiryghy. Sharighatta bar degen sóz.

-  Yasauy zikirinde bi, muzyka qoldanylady, al uahhabiyler ýshin muzyka haram delinedi. Búghan ne deysiz?

- Islam tarihynda bi, muzyka haram deushiler bolghan. Býgin olardyng syndary men minderi qúnsyzdanghan. Sebebi býgin din ghylym retinde ótkenge qaraghanda әldeqayda damydy. Ekzistensiya filosofiyasy, din fenomenologiyasy men psihologiyasy әr qúbylysynyng tanymy, ústanym men múratyn anyqtay alatyn satygha kóterildi. Áriyne, diny tanym tabighaty jaghynan kýrdeli әri uaqyt pen kenistik, dýniyetanymdyq mәdeny kópqabattylyqty da óz ishinde qamtidy. Sondyqtan islam eshqashan muzykany jatsynbaghan. Islamda muzyka ómirding ózi. Jaratylys sol muzykadan bastalghan. Islamda, әlemde muzykanyn, teoriyalyq jәne filosofiyalyq teoriyalaryn qamtityn zertteulerdi Ábu Nasyr әl-Faraby atamyz jasaghany belgili, búl biz ýshin ýlken maqtanysh. Yasauiyding muzykalyq tújyrymy tikeley әl-Farabiyding saz filosofiyasyna negizdelgen. Raks - ritualdyq bi, sama diny әuen tyndau - Allany eske aludyn, ruhany shabyt shaqyrudyng әdisteri ghana. Al әdis eshqashan múrat bolmaghan.

Salafiylerding taghy bir ýshinshi syny - «jýnnen kiyim kii Hz.Isanyng joly. Hz.Múhammed joly maqtadan kiyilgen kiyim», - deydi. Sopylyq pen jýn arasyndaghy baylanysqa negizdese kerek Búlútay myrza da sopylardy «hristian» dep jýr. Búl jerde salafiyler men búlútayshylardyng osy syny qisyngha syimaytyn naghyz sofistika. Jýn mәselesi tónireginde hadisterdi saralap qaraytyn bolsaq, Hz.Múhammed payghambardyng jýnnen toqylghan shapany, ólerinde de ýstinde jýnnen tigilgen kiyimi bolghany belgili. Mysaly, Urva bin Mughira ózining әkesinen estigen hadiste Hz.Múhammed payghambardyng jýn shapany bolghandyghyn aitady.

Kelesi bir synda, sufy sózi islamgha grekting "sofiya" (danalyq) sózinen engen deydi. Sopylyq әr týrli aghymdar men filosofiyalyq mektepterding iydeyalarynyng qosyndysy. Osylardy islammen aralastyryp, ózderin músylmanmyn dep kórsetedi. Grek panteizmi sopylyq doktrinalardyng negizi, neoplatondyq ilimi osy sopylyqqa enip, tәrjime arqyly qabyldandy. Búghan filosofiya kinәli. Maniyheylik pen sufizm Irannyng negizgi tanymy. Vedanta ilimi de sopylyqta bar. Islamda alghashqy ýsh ghasyrda "sufi" sózi, úghymy bolghan emes.

Shyndyghyna kelsek, sufy úghymy payghambarymyz dәuiri kezinde jәne odan búryn da bolghan. Al osy úghymnyng ishki mәnin toltyrghan islam boldy. Sufiylik Qúranmen kóktep, damydy, tamyryn Qúrannan aldy. Búghan talasatyndar bolsa, olar belgili bir maqsatqa qyzmet etetin syrttan tapsyrma alghandar boluy mýmkin. Óitkeni, sopylyqtyng alghashqy kezeni zuhd turaly jogharyda jetkilikti dәrejede toqtalyp óttik. Árbir mәdeniyet bir jaghynan ózining qasiyetti kitabymen tikeley baylanysty. Batys mәdeniyetining negizinde Injil bolghany siyaqty islam mәdeniyetining negizinde Qúran bar. Islam filosofiyasy, mәdeniyeti men órkeniyetining eng manyzdy qyry bolyp tabylatyn sopylyqtyng negizgi irgetasy - Qúran. Sopylyqty tarihy prosess ishinde saralasaq, ishinara basqa mәdeniyet, dýniyetanymdarmen baylanysta bolghan. Biraq, sopylyq jolyndaghylar ýshin eng bastysy әri manyzdysy Qúran Kәrimning búiryghy, kórsetken joly men úsynystary. Sondyqtan Qúran músylmandar ýshin mәni men manyzy, orny men róli birinshi orynda túratyn Allanyng kalamy, sózi (logos). Sopylyqtaghy Qúrannyng әseri de ózge islam ghylymdary siyaqty eng basty jәne eng manyzdy faktor bolyp qala beredi.

- Sopylar, Alla búl әlemdi Múhammed ýshin jaratty deydi. Búghan qanday negiz bar?

- Allanyng ózi Hz.Múhammedti adamzattyng tәji dese, әlemdi Alla adam ýshin jaratsa, adamzat ýshin rahmet retinde jiberilgen Múhammed payghambar bolsa, búl sózding Qúrannyng mәnine sәikes kelmeytin eshtenesi joq. Alla, búl dýnie de, o dýnie de maghan tәn (al-Layl, 13). (Zariat, 56) - Men jyndardy, adamdardy maghan qúlshylyq etsin dep jarattym. Alla eng birinshi núr, odan Múhammedti jaratty.

Sopylardyng әuliyelerge syiynuy, molalardy ainaluy, ólikke kesene ornatuy, dúgha, zikir jasauy, túmar taghu - olardyng islamgha әkelgen biydghattary. Sopylyq eng ýlken shirk, yaghni, kópqúdaylyq negizdegi islamgha jat, tauhidten alys diny tanym. Islamy birlik pen uniyversaldyqty búzu ýshin sopylyqty islamnyng ezoteriyalyq qyry, islam mistisizmi dep kórsetedi.

Búlar salafiyler men uahhabiylerding ózgermeytin tanymynan qaghidashyl ústanymynan tuyndaghan syndar. Islam ómir filosofiyasy, qoghamnyng әrbir mýshesining eng úly kisilik, qúndylyq iyesi bolyp qalyptasuyna, adamdy sýiyge, әdilet, adaldyq, basqa dinge qúrmet pen tózimdilik týsinigin egetin din dep týsinemiz.

- Jalpy uahabiyler degen kimder? Olardyng sopylarmen baylanysy bar ma?

- Búl aghymnyng qalyptasuyna sol dәuirding qoghamdyq, ekonomikalyq, diny jәne sayasy jaghdaylary sebep boldy. Aghymdy negizdegen Múhammed Ibn Abduluahhab HVIII ghasyrdyng ortalarynda Ortalyq Arabstanda Najd jәne al-Hasa aimaqtarynda qozghalys jetekshisi boldy. Búl aghym negizinen arab últshyldyghyn, Osman imperiyasynan azat bolu iydeyasyn tu etip kóterdi. Búl aimaqta eshqanday imperiyanyng yqpaly bolmady. Óte az boldy islam tarihynda. Jeke-jeke taypalardan qúralghan arabtardyng basyn qosyp, bir iydeologiyagha biriktiru, últ jaratu, ortaq mýdde, últtyq memleket qúrugha negizdeldi. Degenmen Uahhaby aghymynyng doktrinalyq negizi islam tarihynda erterek bastalghan bolatyn. Demek, Abduluahhab óz iydeyasyn aspannan alghan joq. Búl iydeya sunni, hanbaly mazhaby negizinde qalyptasyp, damydy. VIII-IH ghasyrlarda islam dogmatikasyna qauip tóngen shaqta, Qúran men Sunnanyng tazalyghyn jaqtap fiyqh mektebin qúrghan Ibn Hanbal tarihta "Islamdy biydghattardan qútqarushy" degen atpen qaldy. Osy prinsip uahhabiylerding basty ústanymyna ainaldy. Abduluahhab Hanbaly ústanymy negizinde dini, sayasy aghymyn qúrdy. Abduluahhab "dindi tazalau", yaghni, payghambar zamanyna oralu maqsatymen óz aghymyn, qozghalysyn úiymdastyrdy. Onyng oiynsha, tek bәdәuy arabtar emes, barlyq músylmandar taza islam doktrinasynan alystaghan bolyp esepteledi. Tauhid jýiesine qauip tóndi. Tauhidti dúrys týsinbeuimizden, úmytuymyzdan sayasi, ekonomikalyq, etikalyq bodandyqtamyz dep úiymdastyrdy. Payghambar qabirin ziyarattyng ózi tauhid teoriyasyna qarama-qayshy keledi. Dindegi mәselesine basqasha mәn beredi. Búlar әriyne óz senimdik ústanymdary túrghysynan әuliye, әnbiyelerge, olardyng qabirine ziyarat etudi әdetke ainaldyrghan. Ásirese, shiyler payghambar әuletinen shyqqan uәkil-imamdargha degen qúrmeti tereng bolatyn. Tek payghambardyng ghana emes, Kerbala shólindegi Hasan  men Husayn, Mekkede Ábu Talip pen Biybi Hadisha qabirlerine aghylyp kelip jatatyn. Abduluahhab osy qúbylysqa soghys ashty. Olardyng әreketin Allagha serik qosu (shirk), dinge janalyq qosu (biydghat), dinnen bezushilik (kufr) dep baghalady. Olar ýshin payghambardyn, әuliyelerding qabirlerin ziyarat etu, Allagha jetkizushi qúral (tauassul) Allagha serik qosu bolyp esepteledi (shirk). Olar óte qaghidashyl. Mysaly, "bas aurugha analigin em" deseniz, búl sóz Allagha serik qosu  (shirk). "Yasauiydey әuliyening qúrmeti ýshin myna dúghamdy qabyl qyl" deseng dinnen bezgensin (mýshriksin). Búlar óz dininen jat, alys qalghandardy tez baurap alatyn doktrina. Abduluahhab "Qúran men Sunna" basqa da negizderdi qabyldaytyn mazhabtardy dinge janalyq qosu dep (biydghatshylyqpen) kýstanalaydy. Al, ózderin týsingisi kelmegenderdi nadan (jahiyl), olardyng senimine kirmegenderdi "dinsiz" dep qaraydy. Abduluahhab "bizding hanafy mazhabyn kafirlerding mazhaby" dep qaraydy. Shyndyqta olardyng qas dúshpany - naghyz músylmandar. Óitkeni, tauhid ústanymy hristian, yahudiylerge sәikes kelmedi. Sonda da olargha músylmangha qylghan әreketterin qyla almaydy. Olardyng iman mәselesi boyynsha aitqan iydeyalary, joldary músylmandar arasynda týrli týsinispeushilikke aparyp soghuda. Sonymen uahhabiyler Qazaqstanda ghasyrlar boyy ómir sýrip kele jatqan dәstýrli hanafy mazhabyna qarama-qayshy kózqarastaghy aghym. Mysaly, biz ómirden ótkenderge, ruhyna Qúran baghyshtaymyz, tariqat, qabirdi ziyarat etu, olargha belgitas ornatu islamgha jat dep uaghyz aitushylar kóbeydi. Búl qoghamdy qayshylyqtar men kelensiz jaylargha aparyp soghuda. Muzyka, teatr, óner, tuylghan kýn toylaudy haram, kýnә dep esepteydi. Búlar, uahhaby aghymyndaghylar ýshin Allagha serik qosu (shirk) jәne dinge janalyq qosu (biydghat).

- Osy Taymiia  degen kim?  Qazir jastar «úly ústaz Taymiia» dep shulap jýr...

- Taqiuddin Ibn Taymiya  HIV ghasyrda ómir sýrgen Ahmad Ibn Hanbaldyng doktrinasynyng jayyluyna kóp enbek etken adam. Onyng kózqarasy boyynsha әuliyeler, әnbiye, payghambarymyz Múhammed (s.a.s) qabirin ziyarat etuge qarsy shyqty. Ibn Taymiya Hanbaly mazhabynyng reformatory retinde, keybir mәselelerde hanbaly aghymyna ýilespeytin iydeyalar taratty. Qúran men Hadisten basqa negizderdi moyyndamady. Sol sebepti qazylar tarapynan qughyndaldy, qapasqa jabyldy. 1328 jyly týrmede qaytys boldy. Ibn Taymiya aghymy óz dәuirinde radikaldy eseptelgendikten onsha oghan erushiler bolmady. Ibn Taymiya iydeyasyn Ibn Qayim al-Jauziya siyaqty shәkirtteri әri qaray jalghastyrdy. Osy túghyrlar Múhammed Abduluahhab tarapynan uahhaby aghymynyng teoriyalyq negizine ainaldy. Uahhaby qoghamdaghy qúbylystar men dini, filosofiyalyq mәselelerdi tereng taldamaydy, bir jaqty tújyrym, ýkim beredi. Olar ýshin Qúran men Sunnadan keyin Ibn Taymiya men Ibn Jauziya enbekteri kodeks retinde qabyldanady. Biraq, búl ghalymdardy da dúrys týsinip, mengere almaghandary belgili.

-  «Biydghat» degen ne?

- "Biydghat" sózi arab tilinde sózdik maghynada "janalyq engizu" retinde, sharighat túrghysynan payghambarymyz ýiretken islam dininde kezdespeytin eshqanday sharighattyng qaghidagha negizdelmeytin amaldy, is-әreketti aitady. Islam ghúlamalary biydghatty týgeldey joqqa shygharmaydy. Dinge janalyq qosudy (Biydghatty) jaqsy jәne jaman dep ekige bólip qarastyrady. Jaman biydghatqa, ghúlamalarymyz, islam dini negizderine, ghibadat formasyna janalyq engizudi aitady. Mysaly, bes uaqyt namazdy, alty uaqytqa shygharugha nemese eki uaqytqa týsire almaydy. Islamnyng iman, namaz, oraza, zeket jәne qajylyq sharttaryna basqa taghy da ózgeris engizuine jol joq. Jaqsy biydghat bolsa, adamnyng aqyly, oi-sanasy, qogham men adamnyng materialdyq, ruhany tirshiligine, kemeldigine ýles qosatyn nәrseler kiredi. Búlar diny jәne dýniyauy damugha yqpal etkendikten dinde rúqsat etiledi. Mysaly, Hz.Múhammed payghambardyng tuylghan kýni (mәulid), tәspi (tasbiyh), salauat (tahliyl), Allany eske alu (zikr), әsem ýilerde túru, tehnia jetistikterinen paydalanu jәne t.b. uahhabiyler búlargha, payghambar dәuirinde bolmaghan nәrsening bәrin joqqa shygharady. Olardy tútastay biydghat dep qaraydy. Islam eshqashan adamnyng ruhani, materialdy damuyna, kemeldenuine qarsy shyqpaydy. Adamnyng ashqan janalyqtaryna Alla sýiispenshilik tanytady. Qúran men Sunnagha onyng talaptaryna say keletin nәrsening bәrin islam "ghúryp" deydi. Yaghni, kórkem, әdemi degen sóz. Barlyq músylmannyng qabyldaghan isi Alla tarapynan da qabyldanady (Hadiys). Eger biz Payghambar dәuirinde bolmaghan dep, Sunnitke say emes dep, býgingi ghylymdar men islam ghylymdary tafsiyr, hadiys, arab tili (sarf, nahu) bas tartsaq, mektep, medrese, uniyversiytetke barmasaq, búl taza islamnyng ruhyna absoluttik túrghydan jat nrәse. Islam qatyp qalghan qaghida emes. Ol adamdy, әsirese, mumiyn-músylmandardyng damuy men kemeldenuine bastaytyn,  qiyametke deyin ýkimi jýretin Allanyng songhy dini.

Sopylyq, tariqattar turaly músylman ghúlamalary onyng kemeldik, ar ilimi, joly ekendigin aityp ketken. Al uahhabiyler, sopylyqqa qarsy shyghyp, óz nadandyqtaryn negizdep, tariqat mashayyhtaryna yqpal berudi «kýpirlik, kýnә» dep esepteydi.

- Abay Qúnanbayúlynyng sopylyq turaly kózqarastaryna ne deysiz? Siz óz enbekterinizde «Qazaq  músylmandyghynyng negizin Yasauy salghan. Abay, Shәkәrim, Mәshhýr Jýsip, Maylyqoja t.b. qazaq ghúlamalary Yasauiyding ilimin jalghastyrushy izbasarlary» deysiz. Búl ne sonda adasushylyq emes pe?

- Ras barlyq qazaq oishyldary men ziyalylary sopylyq yaghni, ar týzeytin ilimmen susyndaghan. Synaghan, ýirengen. Yasauy de sopylardy synaghan. Abaydyng sopylyqqa taghyp otyrghan syny da jana syn emes, ol sonau tradisionalister men sopylar arasynda IH ghasyrdan beri kele jatqan syn. Abaydyng sopylyqty synauynda maqsat bar. Búl maqsatty Abay ózining uaqyty men kenistigindegi ahualdan alyp otyr. Abay ghana emes, jalpy Shyghys әlemi Batystyng tehnologiyasynan, ghylymynan artta qaludyng basty sebebi retinde islamnyng ruhy bolghan sopylyq dýniyetanymdy kórsetken bolatyn. Búghan syrtqy missioner-oriyentalisterding de yqpaly kýshti boldy. Sopylyqty joqqa shygharu arqyly islamdyq tútastyqty ydyratu maqsat etildi. Negizinen Abaydyng dәuirinde sopylyq mәdeniyet әbden tozyghy jetip, ózining taza ruhynan alystap, kim kóringenning qúralyna ainalyp, din-qoghamdy ydyratudyng sayasatyna ainalghan bolatyn. Tariqattar sayasy biylik basyndaghy jekelegen han, súltandargha ghana qyzmet ete bastaghan. Sopylyq ózining adamdyq, moralidyq múrattarynan júrday bolghan edi.

Tarihtaghy Yasauy joly - din ishi tútastyqqa jәne dinder arasy tatulyq pen toleranttylyqqa shaqyrady. Búl joldyng ústyndyq negizi - sharighat, psihotehnikalyq jýiesi - tariqat, tanymdyq negizi - maghrifat jәne aqiqattan túrady. «Sharighatsyz tariqatqa, maghrifatsyz aqiqatqa ótuge bolmaydy», - deydi Yasaui. Yasauy ilimi boyynsha sharighat - Allanyng jaratqan baqshasynda qalay jýrudi úsynady. Alla adamgha aqyl, erik, qayrat beru arqyly synap, osy baqshany adaspay aralaghandargha jәnnetti nәsip etedi. Yaghni, sharighattyng múraty - jәnnat. Sol baqshanyng ishinde «gýl» bar. Ol gýldi tek qana Allanyng didaryn talap etkender ghana izdeydi. Búny tek Allagha ghashyq bolghandar qalap alady. Olar ýshin Allanyng júmaghy da, tozaghy da emes, Ózi kerek. Yaghny tariqattyng múraty Allanyng didary. Sondyqtan da olardy «didar talap» deydi. Syngha tózgender ghana «syrgha qanyghady». Búl maghrifat satysy.

- «Mediynede Múhammed, Týrkistanda Qoja Ahmet, Manghystauda pir Beket» deydi qazaq halqy. Búnyng islamgha qanday qatysy bar?

- Búl qazaq dalasyna taralghan islam arnasynyng ruhany bastauyn kórsetetin tirkes. Qút ilimining berilu joldaryn da bildiredi. «Qúrma simvolymen kelgen ilim» qazaq degen bolmystyng ózine, ózegine sopylyq tanym bolyp endi. Qazaqtyng qúqyqtyq, moralidyq, sayasy jәne tanymdyq jýielerining jelisinde Yasauy ilimin kóruge bolady. Alghashqyda qazaq degen bolmysttyq gharyshqa kiru ýshin ol rudyng «súltany men qojasy» boluy shart bolatyn. Mysaly Abylay kezindegi «kereyler» ózderining súltany men qojasyn anyqtap, qazaq boldy. Yasauiyding jogharyda aitqan tórt ústanymy men sharty, yaghni, «zaman, meken, ihuan, rabty súltan» qazaq memlekettiligining negizgi úiytqysy boldy.

Yasauy ilimi býgingi qazaq músylmandyghynyng negizi. Sondyqtan biz Yasauy jolyndaghy qazaq músylmandarymyz. Ony eshkimnen jasyra almaymyz. Yasauy joly fikhtyq jaghynan Imam aghzam Ábu Hanifanyn, aqaidtyq (doktrinalyq) jaghynan imam Maturudiyding ilimine negizdelgen, týrki halyqtary arasynda keng taraghan naghyz týrkilik mәdeniyetpen somdalghan dәstýrli músylmandyq týsinigimizding ainasy. Sondyqtan Qazaqstangha zikirden keletin qauip joq. Yasauy ilimi Qazaqstandaghy dinishilik qana emes dinderaralyq tatulyq pen toleranttylyqtyng temirqazyghy. Sopylyq, qazaqtyng últtyq bolmysy men memlekettiliginin, mәdeniyetining negizi. Ol eshqashan memleketke, onyng sayasatyna «qighash emes». Sopylyq eger qazaq memleketi men sayasatyna qighash bolsa, onda memlekettiligimiz ben mәdeniyetimiz de «qighash» bolghany. Óitkeni, sopylyq qazaq ruhaniyatynyng negizindegi ózekting eng manyzdysy, qazaq músylmandyq týsinigining ainasy.

Sondyqtan bizge qalghany Yasauy múrasyn óz dengeyi men dәrejesinde mengerip, soghan layyq bola aluymyz kerek. Barsha músylman oqyrmandardy Yasauiydi onyng múrasyn sýngge jәne qúrmetteuge shaqyramyn. Óitkeni ózindi qúrmetteuding ústanymy osynda jatyr...

- Yasauitanu mәtini bar ghylym ba? Keyingi kezderi Yasauy hikmetti óz jazbaghan degen sózder aitylyp jatyr. Búl jayly ne aitasyz?

- Yasauy turaly әlemde 30-dan astam monografiya, 500-den astam magistrlik, doktorlyq, bakalavrlyq dissertasiya qorghaldy. HIV gh. bastap býginge deyin Yasauy týrki sopylyghyn nasihattaushylary men zertteushilerining negizgi obektisine ainalyp keledi. Ol turaly eng eski qoljazba núsqalary HIV ghasyrgha, Hikmetteri de HVII - ghasyrgha tәn. Kezinde Yasauitanu ghylymiy-zertteu ortalyghynan Yasauy mәdeniyetine tәn 6 kitap jariyalandy. Yasauy shygharmalary - "Diuany Hikmet", "Mirat-ul Qulub", "Risala dar adaby tariqat", "Ilmul Ahual", "Kitabul Tanbih ud-dalliyn". Búlar tolyghymen Yasauy mәdeniyetine tәn mәtinder.

- Ángimenizge rahmet!

Súhbattasqan B.SAYFUNOV

Kenjetay Dosay, Q.A.Yasauy atyndaghy Halyqaralyq qazaq týrik uniyversiyteti,  Týrkologiya ghylymiy-zertteu institutynyng diyrektory

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