Jeksenbi, 7 Nauryz 2021
Internet konferensiya 2384 2 pikir 11 Qantar, 2021 saghat 13:56

«Jer dauynyng nýktesi qoyylmay ma dep qorqamyn»

2021 jyldyng sonynda Jer kodeksine qatysty moratoriy kýshin joyady. Memleket basshysy birneshe mәrte jer satylmaytynyn aitqanymen, búl mәsele әli tolyq kýn tәrtibinen týsken joq. Óitkeni, moratoriy merzimi ayaqtalghannan keyin jer mәselesi qalay sheshiletini әli belgisiz. «Jer satylmasyn, sheteldikterge jalgha berilmesin» degen halyq talaby eshqashan ózgermek emes. 

Sol ýshin saytymyz túraqty týrde jýrgizip kele jatqan internet-konferensiyanyng 2021 jyldaghy alghashqy taqyrybyn osy jer mәselesine arnadyq. Konferensiya qonaghy – 2016 jylghy Jer komissiyasynyng mýshesi sayasatker, «Últ taghdyry» qozghalysynyng tóraghasy Dos Kóshim.

Ótken bir aptada sayt oqyrmandary sayasatkerge saualdaryn joldady. Tómende spiykerding jauabyn jariyalap otyrmyz.


Auyt Múqiybek:

- Qúrmetti Dos agha, Álemning eluge jaqyn elinde qazaq bar. Men «Jer kodeksinin» 46-babyndaghy «Oralmandargha» degen sózden keyin «JÁNE QAZAQSTAN RESPUBLIKASYNYNG AZAMATY BOLYP TABYLMAYTYN ÚLTY QAZAQ ADAMDARGhA;» degen sóilemdi qosyp, shettegi etnikalyq qazaqtargha jerding paydalanu qúqyghyn berudi, sol arqyly shetel investisiyasyn shettegi qandastarymyzdyng qolymen tartudy úsynyp kelem. Siz osy mәselege qalay qaraysyz?

- Qúrmetti Auyt bauyrym, Mening ústanymym boyynsha, jer – memlekettiki emes, qazaq halqyniki. Olar osy jerdi iyemdendi, qorghap qaldy, osy jerge memleketin ornatty. Ókinishke oray, memleket – qazaqtiki bolmay túr... Óz basym, basqa elding azamaty bolyp jýrgen qazaqtargha Qazaq elining jerin paydalanu qúqyghyn beru mәselesin kóteru әli erte dep bilemin. Al últy qazaq investorlargha erekshe jaghday jasau, olargha belgili bir jenildikter beru – kóptegen elde bar, keyde zandy jolmen, al keyde ýnsiz, «ishing bilsinmen» jasalatyn qadamdar.

Núrtay:

- «Shyghys Qazaqstan oblysynda keybir jerler Qytaygha satylyp ketken» degen qaueset ras pa? Týrkistan obl-daghy arabtargha satylghan jerler qaytaryla ma?

- Mendegi aqparat boyynsha, resmy týrde satylghan auylsharuashylyq jerleri joq. Biraq bizding zanymyz boyynsha óndiris oryndaryna (sheteldik investorlargha) әli de jer beriledi. Maratoriy tek qana auylsharuashylyq jerlerine qatysty. Qazaqstanda Resey, Koreya, t.b. elderding kóptegen óndiris oryndary júmys istep jatyr. Taghy bir mәsele: 2016 jylgha deyin Qazaqstannyng birshama jeri búrynghy zang boyynsha arendagha berilip ketkenin de esimizden shygharmalyq. Bes jyldyq maratoriy ol kelisimderdi búza almaydy...Ontýstik ónirde arabtardyng sayasatshylyghyna arnalghan, duadaq ósiretin jerler bar degen de mәlimet bar. Olardyng qaytarylghany turaly habar estigen joqpyn.

Janashyr:

- Qazaqtar ómirinde «jer dauy men jesir dauy» degen tirkes orta ghasyrda qalyp tasqan bolar. HHI ghasyrda genderlik sayasat jesir dauynyng nýktesin qoydy. Súraq jer dauynyng nýktesi qashan qoylady?

-  Jer dauynyng nýktesi qoyylmay ma dep qorqamyn. Mýmkin, imperiyalardyng barlyghy ydyryp bitkende ghana qoyylatyn bolar. Ekinshiden, basqa elderden kýshti, eshbir elge baghynbaytynday qaruly kýshi bar, nemese jaghalasyp óletin qaysar minezi bar elder ýshin jer dauy bolmaytyn shyghar.

Ádil:

- «Jer satylmasyn, sheteldikterge jalgha berilmesin» degen halyq talaby eskerile me? Halyq talaby eskerildi me? Sheteldikterge satylghan nemese jalgha berilgen jerler bar ma? Qúpiya bolmasa sol satylghan nemese jalgha berilgen jerlerding qanday elding azamattary, jer kólemi jәne jaldau merzimimeri jәne shúghyldanghan (alghan jerde) is tirlikteri, ónimderi turaly oblys oblys boyynsha tizimi jariyalansa. Alghan jyly, satqan, jalgha bergen lauazymdylar jariyalansa. Zandylyghyn tiyisti organdar tekserse.

- Keshegi Q.Toqaevtyng sózine sensek – eskerilui kerek. Áriyne, jerge qatysty tolyq monitoring jýrgizilse, jaqsy bolar edi. Biraq biylik oghan barmaydy dep oilaymyn. Jer komissiyasy kezinde «Jer alpauyttarynyng qaysysynda qansha jer bar?» degen súraghymyzgha da jauap ala almadyq. Memleket bizge jer iyemdenip otyrghan TOO-lardyng tizimin berdi, biraq sol TOO-lardyng qojayyndary kimder degen súraghymyz jauapsyz qaldy.

Qayran:

- RF deputapttary qazaq jerine, territoriyasyna daulasyp jatyr ghoy. Al biz sol orystarmen EAEO-tamyz. Osy odaq qazaqqa qanshalyqty kerek?

- Putin Kenes odaghynyng ydyrauyn «HH ghasyrdyng basty apaty» dep jylasa, bizder «Elimiz tәuelsizdik aldy» dep quanamyz. Sizdi qoldaymyn. Búrynghy metropoliya men onyng otary bolyp, últtyq qúndylyqtaryn joghaltugha shaq qalghan elding odaqtasuy – migha kirmeytin mәsele. Biraq, mening oiymsha, búl Odaqqa qazaq kirgen joq, kezinde Mәskeuge qyzmet etken basshylarymyz kirgizdi.

Oreke:

- Tokaev keshegi makalasynda ASh jerlerdi ekonomikagha ainaldyru kerek dedi. Búl degen sol jerlerge shetelden investisiya tartu degen sóz. Aynalyp kelgende bәribir sheteldikter keledi. Endeshe Jer satylmaydy, jalgha berilmeydi degen bekershilik emes pe?

- Kelisemin. Búl sózdi Toqaev myrza búryn da Joldauynda aityp ótken. Onyng astarynda ne bar dep, bәrimiz oilanyp qalghanymyz da ótirik emes. Meninshe, biylik jerdi tauargha ainaldyru oiynan bas tartqan joq siyaqty. Qysqasy, eki jaq bolyp andysyp otyrghan jayymyz bar. Áriyne, Toqaevtyng búl sózi qoghamda alandaushylyq, sezik, kýmәn tudyrdy. Biraq, mening biluimshe, jerdi satpay-aq, kóp jylgha jalgha bermey-aq investisiya tartugha bolady. Mýmkin, Preziydent osy joldar turaly aitqysy kelgen bolar.

Tayjan:

- «Jer kodeksinin» 46-babyndaghy «Oralmandargha» degen sózden keyin «JÁNE QAZAQSTAN RESPUBLIKASYNYNG AZAMATY BOLYP TABYLMAYTYN ÚLTY QAZAQ ADAMDARGhA;» degen sóilemdi qosyp, shettegi etnikalyq qazaqtargha jerding paydalanu qúqyghyn berudi, sol arqyly shetel investisiyasyn shettegi qandastarymyzdyng qolymen tartudy úsynyp kelem» - búl qazaq jerin qytaygha jalgha beruding amaly emes pe? Sonda ainalyp kelgende búl aramza Auyt ta qazaq jerine qytaylardyng jappay kelip qonystanuyna qarsy emes degen sóz ghoy. Sonda búl opasyzdar aram payda ýshin Qazaqstannyng bolashaghyna týkirgeni baryn kórsetip otyr.

- Tayjan bauyrym, sayasiy-qoghamdyq ómirdegi eng basty ústanym – mәdeniyettilik. Eger әr adamnyng pikirine «aramza», «opasyz», «satqyn» degen teneulermen bagha beretin bolsaq, alysqa barmaymyz. Búl – dәleli joq adamdardyng tәsili. («ngpiyter, sen ashulana bastadyn, demek seniki dúrys emes» degen aforizmdi bilesing ghoy). Auyt búl súraqty qanday maqsatpen qoyyp otyr, astarynda ne bar ekenin ózi ghana biledi. Mýmkin, osynday oida jýrgenderge mening tarapymnan jauap beriluin kýtetin shyghar. Men oghan «itting balasy, oiyng aram» degen joqpyn, «búl mәseleni kóteru erte» dedim de qoydym. Bir birimizdi «batyr» degimiz kelmese, eng bolmasa, «qatyn» demelik

Súraq:

- Dos agha, Preziydent Toqaev juyrda Egemende jariyalaghan maqalasynda Tәuelsizdikting 30 jylyn ýsh on jyldyq beleske bólip, jetistikterin tizip shyqty. Al, Siz, osy ýsh on jyldyqta qanday kemshilikter jiberdik dep esepteysiz?

- Basty kemshiligimiz - osy ýsh onjyldyqtaghy Kemshilikterimizdi bólip alyp, tizip  berudi ýirenbegenimiz der edim.

-Sonymen qatar, Preziydent memlekettik til turaly óte әdemi sózder aitty. Biraq, qazaq qoghamy ýnemi talap etip kele jatqan 7 bap ózgermeyinshe, Toqaevtikin jay populizm dep qabyldaugha bola ma?

- Álipting artyn baghayyq. Eger osy jyly Memlekettik til turaly zang qabyldanbasa, әriyne, populizm dep qabyldaugha tura keledi.

- 2016 jylghy halyqtyq tolqudan keyin arnayy komissiya qúryldy. Ol komissiyagha júrt kónili tolmaghany bayqaldy. Onyng qúramynda óziniz de boldynyz. Siz sol komissiyanyng júmysyn qalay baghalaysyz?

- Qoghamdyq komissiyanyng júmysyn – qogham baghalaydy. Áriyne, mening de kónilim tolmady. Biraq qolymyzdan kelgenin jasaugha tyrystyq. Alghashqyda, 75 komissiya mýshesining 60-tan astamy biylikting baghytyn qoldady, al songhy otyrystarda solardyng teng jartysy bizding baghytymyzgha búryldy. Búl kópshilikting kózine týspeytin, asa kýrdeli júmys boldy. Ár otyrysty úiymdastyru, olargha adamdar shaqyru da onayshylyqpen ótken joq – oblystardaghy bizdi qoldaytyn júrtshylyqty úiymdastyrugha, otyrysqa alyp kelu, kirgizu, jergilikti biylikting jinaghan adamdarynan kem bolmaytynday kýsh kórsetu de naqty úiymdastyru júmystarynyng nәtiyjesi boldy. Oghan «Últ taghdyrynyn» azamattary jәne basqa da últshyl jandar atsalysty. Olargha ýlken rahmet aitamyn. Búl – jenis emes, itjyghys bolar...

-Biyl maratoriy ayaqtalady. Toqaev taghy da Jer komissiyasyn qúru kerek dedi. Ol komissiyagha kimder mýshe boluy kerek? Jәne komissiya naqty qay baghytta júmys isteui tiyis?

- Meninshe, taghy da komissiya qúrudyng eshqanday qajeti joq. Ne Parlament osy eki mәselening naqty sheshimi kórsetilgen zang baptaryn qabyldauy qajet, ne bolmasa «qazaqpen qarsylasatyn jerindi ait!» degen mәsele ghana qalady. Áriyne, Mәjilisting júmysshy tobyna Múhtar Tayjan siyaqty azamattar enui kerek.

- Eger Ýkimet Jer Zanyn retke keltirmese, halyqtyng talaby eskerilmese, 2016 jylghy mitingiler qaytalanuy mýmkin be?

- Qazirgi әleumettik-ekonomikalyq jaghdaydy eskersek, ol mitingiler balanyng oiyny bolyp qalady ma dep oilaymyn.

- Resey deputattarynyng qazaq jerine qatysty dauly mәlimdemesin qalay qabyldadynyz? Biz búdan qanday qorytyndy jasauymyz kerek?

- Resey elshiligine tabaldyryqty kórsetip, Euraziyalyq odaqtan shyghuymyz kerek!

-Toqaev Jeltoqsan qaharmandarynyng azamattyq erligi layyqty baghasyn aluy kerek dedi. Alayda, búl taqyryp bizding qogham ýshin әli de júmbaq sekildi. Degenmen, 86 jylghy jastardyng erligi baghalanuy ýshin naqty qanday qadamdar jasaluy kerek?

- Qoghamgha júmbaq emes dep oilaymyn. Qogham, onyng ishinde, qazaq qoghamy búl kóteriliske ózining baghasyn berip qoydy. Ókinishke oray, memleket búl mәseleni jaryqqa shygharghysy kelmey otyr. Ol da týsinikti. Mening «90-jyldardyng qara sózderi» degen kitabymda Jeltoqsangha baylanysty maqalalar bólimining mynaday epigrafy bar: «Osy súmdyqty istegen adamdar biylikte otyrghanda – shyndyq eshqashan ashylmaydy». Qanday naqty qadamdar jasaluy kerek deysiz be? Birinshi – aryludan bastaluy kerek. Osy mәselege qatysy bar jandar últtyng aldynda, eng bastysy, ózderining aldarynda aqtaluy shart. Ekinshi – sol kóterilis kezinde sottalghan, jaraqat alghan, júmystan, oqudan shshygharylghan, t.t azamattargha memleket tarapynan zang jýzinde materialdyq   jaghdaylar, jenildikter jasaluy shart. Ýshinshi – әrbir auylda, eldi mekenderde Alashtyn, Azattyqtardyn, Jeltoqsandyqtardyn  eskerkishteri, belgileri ornauy shart (Qazir bizding azamattar Tәuelsizdik kýni jinalatynyn jerdi de taba almay otyr).

- Qazaqstanda sayasy kózqarasy ýshin týrmede otyrghan tútqyndar az emes. Estiytin memleket tújyrymdamasyn jasaghan biylik nege óz pikirin ashyq aitatyn azamattardan qorqady? Al, Qazaqstandaghy adam qúqyghy men sóz bostandyghy 30 jylda algha basty ma, әlde keri ketti me?

- Óz basym, «sayasy kózqarasy ýshin otyrghandardyn» barlyghyn, shyn mәnindegi sayasy tútqyndar dep eseptemeymin. Mysaly, olardyng ishinde Ridder qalasyndaghy túrghyndardyng arasynda Reseyge qosylu turaly referendum ótkizbekshi bolghan «batyrlar» da bar... Al Qazaqstandaghy adam qúqyghy men erkindigi mәselesi 1997 jyldardan bastap joghala bastady dep oilaymyn.

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