Kóktemning basy – nauryz da, ayaghy – mamyr da aituly kýnderge, merekege, quanyshqa toly. Solardyng songhysy, biraq qayghysy men qasireti mol taghy bir erekshe kýn – Jappay sayasy qughyn-sýrgin men Asharshylyq qúrbandaryn eske alu kýni. Osy atauly kýnning qarsanynda filologiya ghylymdarynyng doktory, Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary muzeyining mengerushisi Gharifolla ÁNES myrzanyng "Ana tili" gazetine bergen súhbatyn oqyrman nazaryna úsynyp otyrmyz. 

 «Ana tili»: Redaksiyamyzgha qosh keldiniz!. Bizding gazet, újymymyz Ózinizge ystyq shyghar?

Gharifolla Ánes: Ár pendening ómiri ózindik beles, biyiktikterden túrsa, men ýshin «Ana tilinde» ter tókken ýsh jylym shyngha shyqqan, tirligimdi kýrt ózgertken, shuaqty sәtterimen jadymda jattalghan berekeli jyldar boldy. 1990 jyldyng nauryz aiynyng bel ortasynda Bas redaktorymyz Jarylqap Beysenbaev (әli esimde, aghamyz synghan qolyn moynyna asyp jýrgen sol kezde), onyng orynbasary Baqyt Sarbalaev, jauapty hatshymyz Ertay Ayghaliyev tórteumiz qazirgi A.Baytúrsynúly atyndaghy Til bilimi institutynyng akt zalynda gazetting alghashqy sanyn dayyndap edik... Men osy Instituttyng kishi ghylymy qyzmetkeri bolatynmyn, nómiri birinshi búiryqpen «Ana tiline» Tiltanu atty bólimning basshysy bolyp bekidim. Osylaysha ýsh basshy, bir qosshy 10 myng danamen Nauryz kýni alghashqy qarlyghash sanymyzdy úshyrdyq. Abyroysyz bolghan joqpyz, aragha azghantay uaqyt salyp «Ana tili» gazeti 107 myng taralymmen qoldan-qolgha tiymey ketti. Elimizding qiyr shetindegi auyldarda múghalimderding «Ana tilinde» jarqyray shyqqan tyng maqalalardy oqulyqsha paydalanyp jýrgenin týrli issaparlarda kózimizben kórdik.

Áriyne, ol kezding aty da, zaty da bólek edi ghoy. Jylymyq jyldar, aitysty-tartysty jiyndar, Tәuelsizdikting tәtti shaghy, qayyrshygha bergisiz qayyrly kezder... Osylaysha ýsh jyldyq jurnalistikting joghary mektebinen ótken song ornymdy belgili aqyn, oqyghan-toqyghany mol Baybota Qoshym-Noghaygha tabystadym. Alghashqylardyng biri bolyp qoghamdyq birlestik qúryp, baspagerlikke auystym. Ol da bir zaman talaby-túghyn. Óitkeni eki dýniyede qyzyq kórmegen Alash Arystaryn qaytadan halqymen qauyshtyru qajettiligi tughan edi.

«Ana tili»: Endi sol qasiretti jyldargha qatysty tyng derek, kýrmeui qiyn mәseleler turaly oilarynyzben bólise otyrsanyz.

Gharifolla Ánes: Últymyzdyng ruhany kósemi ayauly Ahannyng – Ahmet Baytúrsynúlynyng bir sózi qashan da jadymnan ketpeydi: «Qazaq – joqshy. Biz joghyn izdegen halyqpyz». Búl tanymy terende jatqan oily sózdi san saqqa jýgirtip, san týrli taldaugha bolady. Osy úghym-týsinik bizge ótkenimizge ýniluge, býgingini bajaylaugha, bolashaqty boljamdaugha kilt bola alady. Últymyzgha qatysty qanday mәseleni kóterseniz de aitylmaghan shyndyghy bastan asady, nebir qarama-qayshy, keregharlyqqa tap bolasyz. Ósken, órkendi elding shejire jady myndaghan jyldardy sanagha syighyzsa, bizde bәri «aqtandaq», tiyanaghy joq dauly mәsele, barynyn, narynyng ózine bagha berushi qandastarymyz oqpananyng eki jaghyna bólinip alyp, «meniki ghana dúrys» degen keudemsoqtyqtan  arylar emes. Tamyry terenge ketken, ata tarihtyng qoynauyndaghy qúpiyalardy ashuymyz qajet-aq, әitsede kýni keshe tuyndaghan, tipten býgin zardabyn tiygizip otyrghan, ertenimizge qauip tóndiretin mәselelerdi ashyq talqygha salmay, qoghamnyng joghy, qazaqtyng joghy týgendelmesi haq.

Men 17 ret (!) atom jarylysyn basymnan keshken, kishkentay ghana Azghyr degen (1930 jyldary audan ortalyghy bolghan) poligon-auylda ósken qazaqpyn. Ákem 44-aq jyl ghúmyr keshti, inimning ólimi júmbaq, qaryndasym ómirlik mýgedek. Búl – әriyne, mening tragediyam, mening basymdaghy jaghday ghana. Al shyndyghynda osy aimaqta, alaqanday jerdegi búrynghy Balqúdyq jәne Sýiindik atalghan qos sovhozda, onyng bes-besten on bólimshesinde (Azghyr, Úshtaghan, Asan, Qonyrterek, Labay, Noghaybay, Egindiqúdyq, t.b.) ghúmyr keshken 10 myng adamnyn, býginde sol jerden kóshpey qasarysyp otyrghan, ýsh jaghynan qyspaqqa alghan Taubúirat, Ashuluk, Kapustin Yar әskery poligondarynyng zardabyn kýnde tartyp, tóbesinen zymyran kýnde jauyp otyrghan, ne auyz suy joq, ne qarapayym tas joly joq, ne gazy joq Naryn qúmyndaghy 3.5 myng beybaqtyng taghdyry emes pe?!. Búl jaralardy tyrnasan, jalaulatyp-alaulatsan, kópke, joghary jaqqa topyraq shashqanday bolasyn. Al ýndemegennen ne shyghady?!. Sovet zamanynda 70 jyl, óz tizginimiz óz qolymyzgha tiygende 30 jyl ýndemey-aq qoyalyq, sonda kimge payda, kimge ziyan?!.

«Ana tili»: Bәri dúrys qoy... biraq bizding qalyng oqyrman Asharshylyq

zúlmaty, Qughyn-sýrgin nәubeti turaly bile týssek deydi.

Gharifolla Ánes: Búl jerde basyn ashyp alar bir mәsele bar. Búl dýniyede әdildik, aqiqat degen mýmkin bar shyghar, ol әriyne bir Allagha ghana ayan, al men bilgende shyndyqtyng týr-týri bar: jeke adamnyn, yaky mening shyndyghym, mýddelester shyndyghy, maman (mәselen, tarihshy ghalym) shyndyghy, qogham shyndyghy, biylik shyndyghy (ony keyde sayasat, ishki sayasat, syrtqy sayasat dep jatamyz)... Mәselening tóresi men týiini osylardyng úshtasuynda, bir arnagha qúiuynda, toghysuynda jatsa kerek.

Basyn ashyp alar bir mәsele – men bar-joghy tilshi-ghalymmyn, kәsiby tarihshy emespin. Sondyqtan mening auzymnan shyqqan sózdi qogham mamannyng pikiri dep qabyldamauy tiyis. Alayda otyz jyl osy salada jýrgendikten mening kózim jetken birshama shyndyqtar, «ashylmaghan araldar» bar. Mәselen, kýni keshe bir jazyqsyz atylghan Arystyng aty-jónine tap boldym. Qadylbekov Merghaliy degen azamat, stalindik repressiya qúrbany. Bayanauyldyng tumasy eken. 1938 jyly 27 aqpanda Almaty týrmesinde 31 (!) jasynda atylghan. Qazirgi Týrkistan oblysy Kentau qalasy manyndaghy Myrghalymsay qorghasyn-myrysh ken orny osy Merghaliyding atymen atalghanyn bilgenimde birneshe kýn esengirep jýrgen jayym bar. 1928 jyly 21 jasynda Mәskeuding tau-ken institutyn bitiripti. 1937 jyldyng 30 mamyrynda tútqyndalghangha deyin Ontýstik Qazaqstan, Qaratau jәne Qyrghyzstan jerindegi ondaghan ken ornyn túnghysh ret barlap, ashqan eken. Qaraghandy oblysyndaghy Qaraghayly jәne Qayraqty týsti metall, Almaty oblysyndaghy Tekeli qorghasyn-myrysh ken oryndaryn alghash barlaghan. Tehnikalyq kitaptardy qazaqshagha audaryp, tau-ken isi jóninde túnghysh terminologiyalyq sózdik týzgen... Qazaq baspasózin qalt jibermeytin mening bilmeu sebebim – osy kýnge deyin ol jóninde aqparatqa kezikpeppin. Qanysh aghalarymyzdyng zamanynda «halyq jauy» bolghandyqtan aty atalmaghan shyghar. Al bizding jazghyshtar, sensasiya qúmar jazushy-jurnalisterimiz nege ýnsiz? Múrasy saqtalghan ba? Ýrim-bútaghy bar ma? Osynday armanda ketken Arystarymyz jer astyna kómile bermey, enbegi men esimi auyzgha ilinip, tasqa basylyp, hatqa týsse, ol últtyng abyroyy emes pe?!.

Bókeylik Eleusiz Búirin (Búira úly) degen jurnalisti, aqyndy estuiniz bar shyghar. Onyng aty-jóni ruhany tarihymyzda 1911 jyly Orda qalasynda qazaq tilinde «Qazaqstan» (!) degen aiqaylaghan atpen túnghysh gazetimizdi shygharuymen qaldy. Osy Arys azamatty Almatygha syighyzbadyq: akademiya, arhiyv, muzeylerimiz, ondaghy qazaq basshylar «alashshyl» dep júmystan qudy. Marqúmnyng eki qyzy bolghan. Joldasy ekeui kelisimge kelip, qyzdaryn aman saqtap qalu ýshin ekige ajyrasqan. Elde qalghan qyzy jetilip, keyinnen biologiya ghylymynyng doktory, professor bolghan song men «Batys Qazaqstan oblysy» ensiklopediyasyna kirgizdim, balaly-shaghaly, ústamdy, parasatty jan edi marqúm. Al jap-jas kezinde «Qazaqstan» dep jahangha jar salghan Eleusiz atamyz 1933 jyly Dushanbe qalasynda qyzyn qúshaqtap jatyp, ashtan qatty. Óitkeni ol jaqta da memlekettik arhivte júmys istep, jan baghyp jýrgen onyng artynan «alashshyl» degen jalaly hat baryp, júmystan quylyp, nәpaqasyz qaldy. Qazir biz Tәjikstangha súrau salyp, beyitin izdestirudemiz... Basqa qolymyzdan ne keledi?..

Ataqty «Beseuding hatyn» bilesiz. Onyng avtorlary stalindik qanqasaptan aman qaldy, óitkeni olar joghary basshylarynan keshirim súrap, qatelestik, janyldyq dep tayqyghan edi. Zamany sonday edi, tiri qalu ýshin jantalas tirlik... olardy aiyptaugha esh qúqymyz joq. Biraq osy hattyng jazyluyna múryndyq bolghan, jarty patsha Goloshekinge qasqayyp túryp kókeyindegi bar oiyn ashyq jazghan qazaqtyng túnghysh kәsiby ekonomiysi Ázimbay Lekerov alghashqylardyng biri bolyp ajal qúshty. «Arys» baspasy ol turly kitap shyghardy, qazir marqúmnyng Aysadora atty qyzynyng azap lagerinde bolghan sheshesi turaly da jazghandaryn jariyalaghaly jatyrmyz.

Kýni keshege deyin Qazaqstandaghy bank salasynda kóbinshe ózge últ ókilderi basshylyq jasaghany әmbege ayan.  Biz «Tórebek Osmanov – túnghysh bankiyr» degen qazaqsha jәne oryssha qos kitap shyghardyq. Oqynyz, kóriniz! Búl kisining artynda ýsh qyzy qalghan. Olardyng әkelerin atyp, sheshelerin Aljirge aidaghan. Ýsh qyzdy Mәskeuden de әri asyryp, batystaghy ýsh respublikanyng ýsh detdomyna tapsyrghan. Áyteuir Qyzylorda jaqtaghy әkelerining eti tiri bir qaryndasy zarlap jýrip bәrin tauyp, býldirshinderding basyn qosqan, asyraghan, adam qylghan. Zarema atty apamyz kózining jasyn syghyp, «Eki apayym qaytys boldy. Maghan da jýrekke ota jasatu kerek. Biraq operasiyadan túrmay qalsam ata-anam atausyz qalady ghoy» dep shyryldap jýrip, atalghan kitaptardy shyghardy, Qyzylorda qalasynda әkesine kóshe atyn alyp berdi, eskertkish-taqta ornatty...

Áriyne, aita berse әngime kóp. Biraq mening janym auyratyny – alys saghymgha ainalghan arghy tarihty aitpaghanda kýni keshegi II-dýniyejýzilik qyrghynnyng qaraly betterin nege tolyq ashpaytynymyz týsiniksiz. Men maman tarihshy bolsam birinshi kezekte Qazaqstanda qúrylghan atty kavaleriyanyng ókinishti de qasiretti taghdyryn jazar edim. 3200 atty әskerge 3100 qylysh әreng tauyp bergeni, olardy tankige qarsy salghany, 3200 órimdey jigitting bir saghatta jer jastanghany – aitugha túratyn әngime emes pe? Tarihymyzdyng qaraly bir beti emes pe? Bolmasa biz bilimdi de bilikti tarihshy, marqúm professor Kóshim Esmaghambetovting «Týrkistandyq әskery tútqyndar» atty ayaqtalmay qalghan enbegin jaryqqa shygharghaly jatyrmyz. Onda qorshauda qalyp, bolmasa jaralanyp nemis tútqynynda bolghan 1500 qazaq turaly derek bar. Ókinishke qaray, olardyng basym kópshiligi su isherligi bolyp, tozaqtan tiri shyqqanymen stalindik azaptan qútyla almady, sýiekteri itjekkende qaldy.

Smaghúl Kóshekbaev degen azamattyng aty-jónin estuiniz bar ma? Biz rulas, jaqyn tuys bolyp kelemiz. Marqúm soghysqa alynyp, qan maydanda opat boldy. Ol aghamyz býgingi dýrildegen Qúrmanghazy orkestrin qúrghan bolatyn, bókeylik barsha kýishilerdi, onyng ishinde alystaghy Astarhannan Dina anamyzdy týiemen Almatygha jetkizgen. Áriyne, ol «halyq jauy» emes, desek te býgingi aqparattyq qoqys jәshigine ainalghan kishkentay mishyghymyzda múnday derekterge onaylyqpen oryn tabyla bermeyti ókinish-aq...

«Ana tili»: Halqymyzdyng tarihyndaghy orny tolmas qaraly bet – Asharshylyq turaly pikirlerinizdi bilgimiz keledi. Kóptegen qogham qayratkerleri, tarihshylar Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin men Asharshylyqty bólek-bólek qarastyru kerek, ekeui eki bólek tragediya, zúlmat dep jatady.

Gharifolla Ánes: Bizding bitpes jaramyz, tragediyamyz múnday bireu-ekeu emes, sanasa san jetpeydi ghoy. Sonyng ishinde ýsheuin erek bólip ataghan jón. Olar: Úly jút – Asharshylyq, sovet zamanyndaghy Halyq kóterilisi men tolqulary jәne sayasy repressiya. Meninshe, búlardy jiliktep, bólek-bólek qarastyrghanda ne útamyz? Olar siyam egizderi siyaqty birinen-biri tuyndap jatqan, biri sebebi, biri saldary degendey tútas dýnie emes pe?

Qansha auyr bolsa da moyyndauymyz kerek – búl ýsh aktili tragediyanyng avtorlary Moskvada, Kremlide otyrghanymen onyng oryndaushylary – basty róldegi negizgi әrtisteri de, «massovka»-kópshiliktegi qauym da qazaq boldy! Búl qazaqty qúrtu ýshin jazylghan ssenariy, onyng nәtiyjesi – genosiyd-qoyylym bolyp shyqty. Basshylarymyz búl mәseleni «sayasatqa ainaldyrmau kerek» deydi. Jogharyda aitqanymday, shyndyqtyng birneshe tarmaghy, týri bar ghoy. Olardyng qay-qaysysynyng da aitylatyn, aitylmaytyn orny bar, mýmkin jara izin suytar uaqyt ta ótui kerek shyghar...

Mәselen, biz Stalinnen limit súraghany ýshin (jospardy asyra oryndap, qosymsha taghy 800 adamdy atu, 1600 adamdy jer audaru boyynsha ótinish) Almaty men Astanada Lev Mirzoyannyn atyndaghy kóshelerdi ózgerttik. Dúrys-aq! Biraq sol Mirzoyan qol qoyghan, Stalin «Za!» dep oq atugha búiryq bergen shifrovkanyng tómengi jaghyndaghy bes qazaq basshysynyng maqúldap, bata bergenin ayaghyna deyin nege aitpaymyz?

Bolmasa qazaq baspasózinde Túrar Rysqúlov turaly qanshama jala, bylghanyshty materialdar jariyalanyp jatyr? Shynyna kelgende qazaqta Túrardan artyq biylik biyigine kóterilgen lauazymdy qazaq bar ma? 26 jasynda Týrkistan Ortalyq atqaru komiytetining tóraghasy boldy. 32 jasynda RSFSR (Sovet Odaghy dep oqynyz) Halyq komissarlar kenesi tóraghasynyn, yaky 11 jyl boyy IY.Stalinning orynbasary boldy. T.Rysqúlovtyng biograftary aityp jýrgendey, ol eki jasyn ómirbayanyna qosyp alghany shyn bolsa, 25-ke de tolmay baytaq Týrkistandaghy 4-5 halyqtyng taghdyryna aralasyp, talay kýrdeli mәselelerdi (mәselen, Týrksibti salu) sheshkenine tarih kuә ghoy. Áriyne, shyndyq aityluy shart, desek te Túrardyng bedelin túralatsaq, qalghandaryn endi ózimiz syrttay ekinshi ret atu jazasyna keskenimiz bolyp shyqpay ma?

Meninshe, biz shamamyz kelgenshe barlyq «shyndyqty» tútastyryp, barshamyz jabyla otyryp, qoghamdyq shyndyqty qalyptastyruymyz kerek. Óitkeni qogham týzelmey, qogham maqúldamay ol jekenin, belgili bir toptyng ghana shyndyghy bolyp qala bermek.

Halyqtyng (tarihi) jady – býgingi ómirding tirligi, salty. «Jaqsylyq kórsem de ózimnen, jamandyq kórsem de ózimnen» degendey, halyqtyng sana-sezimi, arman-mýddesi – býgingi ómirding ainasy. Biz qalasaq ta, qalamasaq ta shynayy ómir osyghan әkeldi. Riza bolsaq – basshysy da, qosshysy da osyghan ýles qosty, jan-dýniyemizben syrt ainalyp, qarsy bolsaq – basshysy da, qosshysy da osy kýnge layyq.

Jogharyda aitylghanday, Kremlide jazylghan (mýmkin odan erte, sonau aq patsha zamanynda) ssenariy boyynsha Qazaq dalasy qanyrap, iyen qaluy kerek edi. Áriyne, ol bir jylda, bir zamanda iske asuy mýmkin emes, sol sebepti de qoldan Asharshylyq úiymdastyryldy, Qyzyl qyrghyn, Qughyn-sýrgin boldy, synaq poligondary ashyldy, kosmodrom salyndy, Tyng iygerildi... Syn-synaqtardyng eng soraqysy Jeltoqsanmen týiindeldi.

1985 jyly Moskvada Apreli plenumy bolmaghanda 1988-ding ayaghy 1989-dyng basynda Alash arystary aqtalar ma edi? Tәuelsizdikke qolymyz jeter me edi? Tarih tegershigin keyin ainaldyru mýmkin emes, desek te Brejnev ólgen song ornyna Andropov kelgende ne bolar edi. Nebir synaqtargha tózgen júrtymyz jana Jeltoqsandargha tótep bere alar ma edi?..

«Ana tili»: Sonda Siz býgingi ruhany ózekti mәseleler – Til, Dil, Din hәm Jer tartysy tamyry terenge ketken, tarih sabaghy deginiz kele me?

Gharifolla Ánes: Áriyne, últtyq ruh, órshil namys halyqtyng tarihy jadyna tikeley baylanysty. Úlan-baytaq jerimiz ben telegey-teniz elimizge (ghalymdardyng boljamy boyynsha biz býgingi Týrkiyaday 50-60 mln halyqty qúrauymyz kerek edi) Tәnirding emes, adamnyn, kommunistik qyzyl iydeologiyany jamylghan qanypezerlerding qolymen jasalghan synaqtar túymymyzdy túzday qúrtty: sanymyzdy azaytty, sapamyzdy, sana-jadymyzdy kýl qyldy. Endi sony qalay kól etsek degen maqsatta bәrimiz partagha otyrghan jas baladay «Ruhany janghyruymyz» kerek. Shynynda basqa qanday jol bar? Kezinde «Mәdeny múra» – 100 tom babalar sózi, 15 tom «Qazaq әdeby tilining sózdigi», «1000 qazaq әni», «1000 qazaq kýii»... bizding ensemizdi tiktep, keudemizdi kóteruimizge mýmkindik berdi. Óitkeni, múnday ruhany baylyq ghúmyr joly bizden de auyr bolghan tatar, bashqúrt, noghay, qúmyq, saha, hakas siyaqty qandastarymyzdy aitpaghanda, «jettik, toldyq» degen órkeniyetti elderding ózinde biri bolsa, biri joq edi.

«Ana tili»: Sonshama mol ruhany baylyghymyz bola túra tarihy sanamyzdyng siz aitqanday jýielenbey, bir izge týspey jatuyna ne sebep?

Gharifolla Ánes: Batpandap kirgen aurudyng mysqaldap shyghatynyn úmytpayyq. Álem halyqtarynyng kóbinde «Qyryq jyl» degen beles bar. Qyryq jyl qyrghyn kórse de aman qalatyn bahadýrdey qazaghymyz da tóske órlep, tóbege shygharyna senimdimin. Tek bizde bir jaman әdet bar – nauqanshyldyq pen bastaghan isti ayaghyna jetkizbeu. Maghan tanys taqyrypqa oralsaq, mәselen, «Asharshylyq» dep bir kezde du ettik, qazir qoghamdyq pikir sayabyrsyp qaldy. Kezinde «Kәmpeske» degen bir tom kitap shyqty, úmytpasam marqúm Seysen Múhtarúlynyng enbegi, jalghasyn tappay qaldy. Astananyng tórinen Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandaryn eske alatyn monument túrghyzdyq, qazir ol jerde tuymyz tiguli túr. Almatydaghy Alash arystary atylghan týrmede Repressiya muzeyi ashylyp edi, basqa jer jetpegendey ony da satyp, kónening kózindey atu kamerasyn (dayyn kino týsiru alany!) búzdyq, muzeyding eksponattaryn talan-tarajgha saldyq (óz qolymen zattaryn ótkizgen úrpaqtary zar jylap jýr)... Mine, osy jayttar  әsire nauqanshyl, tek jogharydan týsken núsqaudy ghana oryndaushy ekenimizdi, bastaghan isimizdi ayaghyna jetkizbeytindigimizding «ýlgisi».

Ana tili»: Endi Siz basqaryp otyrghan Muzey osy isterdi ayaghyna jetkizetin shyghar?

Gharifolla Ánes: Eshqashan jalghyzdyng ýni, jayaudyng shany shyqpaydy ghoy. Búl qogham bolyp atqaratyn úly sharua, qasiyetti is. Búl orayda men Tәuelsizdikke qolymyz jetip, ashyq qogham qúrugha talpynghan jana zamanymyzda әsirese tarihshy ghalymdarymyz ben arhivisterimizding eresen enbegin atap ótkim keledi. Áriyne, halyqqa kitaptary arqyly akademiyk-professorlar M.Qozybaev, K.Núrpeyisov, S.Zimanov, M.Qoygeldiyev, T.Omarbekov, Q.Aldajúmanov, t.b. tanymal. Al onyng syrtynda qanshama jazylghan dissertasiya, tabylghan arhiv materialdary, dosent, aspirant mamandardyng enbegi bar. Ókinishke qaray, olar halyqtyng kókirek-kózine jetip, jadyna tamshy-bilim bolyp qosylmay otyr. Búl da bizding bir kemistigimiz. Men Sizge aitar edim, aldaghy kýnderde keremet bir tarihiy-derektik «ghalamat janalyqtardyn» tabyla, ashyla qony qiyn. Óitkeni bizding tarihshylar, múraghatshylar olardyng bәrin sýzip shyqqan. Endigi mindet – osy auqymdy isti ayaghyna jetkizu, kýlge ainala jazdaghan jadymyzdy kólge ainaldyru joly. Meninshe, eng aldymen bas qatyrar mәsele osy.

Al Janalyq auylynan ashylghan jana muzeyge kelsek, múnyng da 30 jyldyq tarihy bar. Biyl 8 sәuirde Respublikalyq tarihi-aghartu «Ádilet» qoghamyna 30 jyl toldy. Kezinde memleket qayratkeri Sanjar Jandosov aghamyz bastap ashyp, jogharyda attary atalghan aghalarymyz jәne M.Baydildaev, M.Hasanaev, ortamyzdaghy akademik M.Baymahanov, túraqty atqarushy diyrektor bolghan marqúm S.Aytmambeva t.b. osy qoghamnyng sharuasyn qoghamdyq negizde toqtatpay jýrgizdi. Qoghamnyng eng negizgi bitirgen sharuasy – 20-gha juyq «Azaly kitap. Kniga skorbi» kitabyn jaryqqa shyghardy. Múnda barsha Qazaqstanda Ýlken terror jyldarynda atylghan azamattardyng sot isteri boyynsha ómirbayandyq derekteri qamtylghan.

Osy qogham mýsheleri Janalyq auylynda 4 mynnan astam arystardyng jerlengenin, olardyng arasynda A.Baytúrsynúly, Sәken, Beyimbet, Iliyastardyn... bar ekenin dәleldedi. Mine, osy Janalyq auylyndaghy sýiekter jatqan 17 gektar jer 1993-96 jyldary «Ádilet» qoghamynyng qarauyna berildi. 2002 jyly ol jerge taghzym monumenti túrghyzylyp, jyl sayyn Sayasy qughyn-sýrgin qúrbandary eske alu jiyny ótkizilip keledi. Byltyrghy jyly Almaty oblysynyng әkimi Amandyq Batalov óz bastamasymen «Ruhany janghyru» baghdarlamasynyng ayasynda osy jerge muzey ghimaratyn salyp berdi. Muzeyimiz M.Tynyshpaev atyndaghy Almaty oblystyq tarihiy-ólketanu muzeyining bir bólimshesi retinde ótken jyly Tәuelsizdik kýni qarsanynda ashyldy. 29-31 kýnderi ótetin «Asharshylyq jәne Ýlken terrordyng tarihy sabaqtary» atty konferensiya úiymdastyryp jatyrmyz. Oghan Tәshkennen, Osh, Bishkek qalalarynan birneshe tarihshy professorlar keledi, jalpaq Týrkistandaghy Asharshylyq, Qughyn-sýrgin, «Alash» partiyasynyng Qyrghyz bólimi, «Basmashylar» qozghalysy syndy taqyryptarda bayandama jasap, oilaryn ortagha salmaq.

«Ana tili»: Qazir muzeylerimiz ben uniyversiytetterimiz ghylymy mekemege ainalu kerek degen basym baghyt bar. Aldarynyzda osynday ýlken maqsat bar ma?

Gharifolla Ánes: Osyndayda mening oiyma atam qazaqtyng «Týiening arqalaghany altyn, jegeni jantaq» degen maqaly oralady. Qazir barlyq jerde – «optimizasiya». Almaty qalasyndaghy 8 muzey – Sәbit pen Ghabit muzeyi, Últ aspaptary muzeyi, Qonaev muzeyi, t.b. birigip, bir mekeme bolyp kýn kórip otyr. Almaty oblystyq muzeyine búryn 22 muzey baghynady eken, biz sol arbagha 23-shi bolyp tirkeldik. Qansha jerge shabarymyzdy bir qúday biledi. Janymyzdan ghylymiy-zertteu jәne arheologiyalyq bólim ashqymyz keledi. Byltyr jazda Janalyq auylyndaghy bir ýiding aulasynan qúrylys kezinde kóp adamnyng sýiekteri shyqqan. Sot-ekspertiza mekemesi olardy tekserip, 168 adam osy jerde atylghan degen qorytyndy aktini qolymyzgha berip otyr. Yaky alaqanday (2 h 2 m) jerden tabylghan sýiekter tolyq emes, әli de ol jerdi qaza berse shygha beredi degen sóz. Sýiekterdi 31 mamyr kýni diny rәsimmen jer qoynyna qayta tapsyrmaqpyz. Qazirding ózinde irgedegi Janalyq pen Ály auyldarynan onnan astam jerde sýiekter jatqany belgili bolyp otyr. Birinshi kezekte solardy ayaq asty qylmay, qayta jerleumen ainalysudamyz. Bir qosarym, «Janalyq» – býginde repressiya simvolyna ainalyp ketti, ol «Kiyeli Qazaqstan» baghdarlamasyna say respublikalyq qasterli mekenge jatady. Al tek Almatynyng manynda osynday belgili-belgisiz qanshama qorym-kómbeler bar. Býkil Qazaqstan boyynsha she? Biz kóbinshe RSFSR Qylmystyq kodeksining 58-shi «halyq jauy» degen statiyasymen atylghandardy ghana aita beremiz. Al 59-shy bab – «banditizm» she? Onymen Shәkәrim bastaghan 1929-31 jyldary halyq kóterilisining basshylary men qatysushylary ondap-jýzdep sotsyz atyldy. Olar әli tipten resmy «aqtalghan» joq, yaghny – әli kýnge «qaskýnemder!», «banditter!» (әriyne, olardyng kimge qarsy kóterilgenin, olardy «aqtaugha» kim qarsy ekenin ishiniz sezip otyrghan shyghar). Atyshuly 107-shi bab degen bolghan. Oghan elimizdegi 40 mln mal basyn asyrap otyrghan 799 bay-«kulak» ilikti. Olardy da ondap-jýzdep atty, «kәmpeskelep» degenderine jetti: myna baytaq dalada 4 mln-aq mal basy qaldy. 36 mln mal eti Mәskeu men Peterbor júmysshylaryna, eldi industriyalandyryp, zauyt-fabrika salynyp jatqan Ishki Reseyge, Ózbekstannyng maqtaly audandaryna jóneltildi. Nәtiyjesi belgili – qazaq ólili-tirili 4.5 mln «túrghynan» aiyryldy... Sondyqtan «Óli razy bolmay tiri bayymaydy» deydi. Arystarymyzgha qatysty missiyany tolyq ayaqtamay, olardyng әruaqtary bizdi bey-jay jýrgizbeydi...

«Ana tili»: Sizding keltirgen keybir derek-dәiekterinizden jan týrshigedi eken. Endi sóz sonynda ózinizden bir tilek.

Gharifolla Ánes: Biylghy 31 mamyr erekshe jaghdaygha – Oraza aiyna, Qadir týnine túp-tura kelip otyr. Elimiz janghyryp, jana damu dәuirine ayaq basa ma degen ýmit bar. Adam balasy qashanda aldaghy kýnine alandap, armanmen, jaqsy ýmitpen ómir sýredi ghoy. Mening ortam, kópshilik qaraly tarihty qauzay bergendi onsha kóp únatpaydy. Olardyng ústanymy: «Bolar is – boldy, endi janasha ómir sýrelik, bay-baquatty bolalyq». Esh qarsylyq joq, әitsede halqymyzdyng ótken jolyn, qayghy-qasiretin bilmeu, bilse de eske almau – órkeniyetke bastar jol emes dep bilemin.

Súhbattasqan Janarbek Sadyhanúly

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