- Ahmet ata, osydan jýz jyl búryn bilim jarysy degen maqala jazdynyz. Sondaghy oilarynyzdy býgingi úrpaqtyng zerdesine taghy bir qúiyp ótseniz.
-  Bilim jarysy degenimiz: bay adam pәlen myng aqshany bәigege tigedi de, mәlim etedi - osy aqshany pәlendey is istegen kisi alady dep. Mysaly: pәlen aurugha em tapqan ya pәlen ghylymnan, yaky ónerden jana jol tapqan, ya pәlen turasynda jazyp, kitap shygharghan adamdargha beriledi deydi.
Al bәige tigildi. Endi at jarysy bolsa, әrkim atyn jaratyp, bәigege qosar edi, bilim bәigesi bolghan son, bilimdiler bәigege qosylady. Bәigeden dәmesi bar bilim jýirikteri birinen-biri ozugha jýiriktigin ayap qalmaydy. Tap degendi tabugha oilanady, iste degendi isteuge qarmanady. Aqyrynda әrkim istegenin, tapqanyn syngha jiberedi.
Synshylary ghylym ordasynda túrghan bilimdi ghalym adamdar bolady. Búlar qarap, synap, bәige kesedi. Europada, mysaly, Nobelevskiy bilim jarysy bar. Búl jarysta bәigeni ghylym audanynda ya әdebiyet audanynda enbek etip, ozghan adam ya soghysqa qarsy hәm halyq arasyn jaqyndastyrugha pikir jayghan adamdar almaqshy.
-  Jarysyp bәige alu bizding qazaqta da bar ghoy.

- Ahmet ata, osydan jýz jyl búryn bilim jarysy degen maqala jazdynyz. Sondaghy oilarynyzdy býgingi úrpaqtyng zerdesine taghy bir qúiyp ótseniz.
-  Bilim jarysy degenimiz: bay adam pәlen myng aqshany bәigege tigedi de, mәlim etedi - osy aqshany pәlendey is istegen kisi alady dep. Mysaly: pәlen aurugha em tapqan ya pәlen ghylymnan, yaky ónerden jana jol tapqan, ya pәlen turasynda jazyp, kitap shygharghan adamdargha beriledi deydi.
Al bәige tigildi. Endi at jarysy bolsa, әrkim atyn jaratyp, bәigege qosar edi, bilim bәigesi bolghan son, bilimdiler bәigege qosylady. Bәigeden dәmesi bar bilim jýirikteri birinen-biri ozugha jýiriktigin ayap qalmaydy. Tap degendi tabugha oilanady, iste degendi isteuge qarmanady. Aqyrynda әrkim istegenin, tapqanyn syngha jiberedi.
Synshylary ghylym ordasynda túrghan bilimdi ghalym adamdar bolady. Búlar qarap, synap, bәige kesedi. Europada, mysaly, Nobelevskiy bilim jarysy bar. Búl jarysta bәigeni ghylym audanynda ya әdebiyet audanynda enbek etip, ozghan adam ya soghysqa qarsy hәm halyq arasyn jaqyndastyrugha pikir jayghan adamdar almaqshy.
-  Jarysyp bәige alu bizding qazaqta da bar ghoy.
- Qazaqta bay adamdar ya quanysh nәrsege toy istep, at shaptyrady, ya ólgen adamyna as berip, at shaptyrady. Baylyghyna qaray as pen toydyng ýlkeni de, kishisi de bolady. Zorlyghy bәigege tikken malynan góri, shaqyrghan elderding sanynan, soyylghan malynan bayqalady.
Toydan kóbine as zor bolady. Asqa soyylghan maldy, shay-qantyna shyghatyn púldy, ishiletin qymyzdy, tigiletin bәigeni aqshagha audaryp eseptegende, zor astargha talay myng júmsalady. Sonyng bәri júrt jiylyp, bir-eki kýn iship, jep ketu ýshin isteledi. Ne júrtqa keler odan payda joq, ne as berushige tiyer sauap joq, qúr dalagha ketken bir mal bolady da qalady. Aqyldyng auanymen sanaghanda, astyng shyn maghynasy bosqa mal shashu bolyp shyghady. At shaptyryp, as berdi degen bes-on jylgha at qalady. Qazaq jomarttyghynyng týri hәm onyng aqyrghy tiyimi osy.
-  Qazaqqa bilim jarysy ne ýshin kerek?
Neshe týrli ghylym, óner - bәri de tirshilikting auyrlyghyn azaytu ýshin, raqatyn molaytu ýshin, shygharghan nәrseler. Ghylym, óner artylghan sayyn dýniyada beynet kemimekshi. Osyghan aqyly jetip, esi engen júrttar ghylym men ónerdi birden-birge asyrugha tyrysady. Asyru ýshin әr týrli ister isteydi. Sol isterding biri - bilim jarysy.
Búl zamanda qoly jetpegenderdi tendikke jetkizetin, әlsizderge kýsh beretin óner-bilim, sol óner-bilimge mezgili ótpey túrghanda ýirensek, túrmysymyzdy týzetip, basqalardyng ayaq astynda janshylmas edik, biz de óz aldymyzgha, bir júrt ekendigimizdi bildirer edik. Osy zamandaghy jan tanyrqarlyq nәrsening bәri de ghylymmen tabylghan. Adam balasyn kókte qústay úshqyzghan, suda balyqtay jýzdirgen ghylym. Dýniyanyng bir sheti men bir shetinen shapshang habar alghyzyp túrghan ghylym, otarba, ot kemelerdi jýrgizgen ghylym.
Qazaq biyl 5 tengege satqan nәrsesin keler jyly ózi 10 tengege qayta satyp alady. 10-11 somgha alyp otyrghan bylghary - byltyrghy 4-5 somgha ózi satqan terisi. Kezi 5-6 somdyq shúghalar, torqalar - qazaqtyng bir pútyna  3-4 som alyp satqan malynyng jýni.
Qazaqtyng osy kýni satyp almaytyn nәrsesi joq, sol alghan nәrselerining birin de qazaq ózi istegen emes. Qazaq paydalanyp otyrghan shóp shabatyn, kiyim tigetin mashinalar, soqa-sayman, arba-shana, kiyim-keshek, ydys-ayaq - bәri de zavod, fabrikalarda istelip, shyqqan. Búl istelip shyqqan nәrselerding sýieginen is aqysy on ese qymbat. Búlay bolghanda, qazaq basqa júrttyng ónerin qymbatqa satyp alyp otyr. Basqa júrttarda ózderining istegen nәrseleri óz ishinde satylyp, júmsalghan aqsha óz elderinde qalyp, shetke ketpeytin bolsa, ony júrtqa shyghyn dep eseptemeydi, tek birinen-birine auysqangha sanaydy. Qazaq malynyng basqalargha ketpeytin orny joq.
- Ne ýshin bizding qazaq baylary ózge elding baylary siyaqty qazynalaryn jogharyda atalghanday bilim jarystaryna jәne taghy basqa salalargha salmaydy?
Europa baylary múnday iske aqshasyn basy býtin qiyp, jomarttyq etedi. Aqshasyn payda qylyp, sonymen malyn kóbeytuge shygharmaydy, әuelden-aq júrt ýshin, kóp ýshin qaytpas qayyr qúrbanym dep shygharady.
Bizding qazaq baylarynda europa baylarynday mol baylyq joq, az baylyqpen halinshe jomarttyq qylatyn baylar qazaqta az, joqtyng qasynda. Bireuding maly kóp bolsa da, sanylauy joq bolady. Júrt isine jany ashyp, júrt namysyna qany qyzatyn qazaqta adamdar az bolady. Sebebi, júrt júmysy degen qazaqtyng әdetinde bolghan emes. Ózge júrttan onasha jýrip, qazaq basqa halyqtarmen bәsekelesip, jarysqa týsken joq. Sondyqtan júrt júmysy, últ namysy degen sóz qazaqtyng kóbine týsiniksiz nәrse. Ot basyna kelerlik bәle bolmasa, júrt basyna kelerlik bәleni oilap, uayymdamaydy. Quanyshy, qayghysy ot basynan aspaydy.
Últ namysy degendi qazaqtyng kóbi eki auyldyn, eki taptyn, ya eki rudyng namysy dep úghady.
Basqadan kemshilik kórse, namystanbaydy, kektemeydi, bir-birinen kemshilik kórse, kegin jibermeydi. Aulyn shauyp, adamdaryn sabasa, jauyn múqatyp, maqsatyna jetip bolghany. Halyqtyng kóbi sonday bolghan son, sol kópting ishindegi baylar qayda barsyn? Sondyqtan qazaq baylary bilim bәigesine aqshasyn  Europa baylarynday basy býtin bere almaydy. Europasha iste deuge auzymyz bara almaydy.

- Olardy múnday izgilikti iske tartudyng joly qaysy?
Qazaq baylary bilim bәigesine aqshasyn basy býtin shygharmasyn, ózine qaytaratyn etip bәigege tiksin. Ony bylay etuge bolady: jogharyda aityldy, bilim jarysy qazaq arasyna bilim taratatyn kitaptar shygharugha bolsyn dep. Bilim týrli bolady. Bilimning әr týrin birdey jaqsy biletin adam az bolady. Bir týrin jaqsy biletinderding tabyluy qiyn emes. Doktorlyq ghylymyn oqyghandar densaulyq jayynan kerek kitaptar jazugha mýmkin nәrse; sharua jayyn oqyghandar sharua jayynan qazaqqa kerek jaqsy kitaptar jazugha mýmkin nәrse; oqytu jayyn jaqsy biletinder mektep kitaptaryn jaqsylap shygharugha mýmkin nәrse; әdebiyet audanynda jýirikter halyqtyng qylyghyn, qúlqyn týzetuge keregi bar jaqsy romandar oghary sonday sózder shygharugha mýmkin nәrse.
Osynday kitaptargha bәige tigilse, ol bәige naghyz jaqsy shygharghan ghana kitaptargha berilse, tigilgen bәigege qaray bәige berilgen kitapty bir ya eki ret bay bastyryp, aqshasyn óndirip alatyn bolsa, sodan keyingi bastyrulary jazushynyng óz erkine berilse, osy shartpen bilim jarysy istelse, әueli, bәige tiguge jomarttyq kóp kerek bolmas edi, nege desen, synaudan ótip jaqsy dep bәige berilgen kitap, ótpey qalady dep qauiptenuge oryn joq. Ekinshi, jazushygha da qolayly, shygharghan kitaby jaqsy bolsa, enbegine tiyisti dayar aqshany alyp, onan әri taghy jaqsy kitap shygharugha kiriser edi. Enbegine aqysy tatymdy bolghan son, ol ózin sol júmysqa alansyz jeger edi. Ár jerden sonday jazushylar shyqsa, bilim júmysyn aidap algha bastyrmay qoymas edi.

Materialdy dayyndaghan Bitanova A.
Memlekettik tildi damytu institutynyn
ghylymy qyzmetkeri

*Súhbatqa Ahmet Baytúrsynúlynyng 1913 jyly «Kazaq» gazetinde jariyalanghan «Oqu jayy» jәne «Bilim jarysy» degen maqalalary paydalanyldy.

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