– Qayrat Danabekúly, әngimenizdi aldymen ózinizdi tanystyrumen bastanyz?

– Men Shynjandaghy qazaghy eng kóp audan sanalatyn Kýneste 1964 jyly dýniyege keldim. 1983 jyly mektepti bitirgenen keyin Ile ped. institutynyng (qazirgi Ile ped uniyversiytetti) әdebiyet fakulitetine týsip, onyng tolyq kursyn 5 jyl oqyp bitirip, ózim týlep úshqan altyn úya Kýnestegi №1-qazaq orta mektebine baryp 25 jyl múghalim boldym. Qytay memleketining tiyimdi sayasatynyng arqasynda 50 jasymda zeynet demalysyna shyqtym. Zeynetkerlikke shyqqanan keyin de tynysh jatpay búrynyraqta qolgha alyp, bastap qoyghan sharua qojalyqtyng dóngelegin dóngelettik. Oghan deyin búl kәsipti júbayym jýrgizip kelgen bolatyn.

– Qazaqstangha qay jyly keldiniz?

– 2017 jyly 28 tamyzda óttim.

– Jýrgizip jatqan sharuany kimge tapsyryp kettiniz?

– Júbayym ekeuimiz aqyldasa kele, ol elde qalyp sharua qojalyghyn jýrgizetin boldy, al men eki balamdy Qazaq eline aparyp oqytatyn bolyp kelistik. Sodan biz Qazaqstanda taban tirep, әbden ornyghyp alghansha baryp-kelip tirlik jasaytyn bolyp, balalardy ertip kettim. Ol kezde úlymnyng ýlkeni 15 jasta, kishisi 6 jasta bolatyn.

– Qay jerge kelip taban tirediniz?

– Birden Astanagha bardyq. Alghashynda ýy jaldap otyryp balalarymdy mektepke berip oqyttym.

– Balalardy qanday mektepte oqyttynyz?

– Balalar alghashynda Astana qalasyndaghy Jambyl Jabaev atyndaghy №4-mektep gimnaziyasynda ýlken úlym 9-synyptan, al kishi úlym 1-synyptan bastap Qazaqstannyng oqu baghdarlamasymen sabaq oqy bastady. Keyin qabat ýiden bir bólmeli pәter satyp aluyma baylanysty, ýlken bala 10-sypqa, al kishi bala 2-synypqa ótkende №73-fizika-tehnikalyq liyseyine auystyrdym. Oghan qosymsha bilim tolyqtyru ortalyqtarynda syrttay arnayy ýsh jyl oqyttym. Liyseydi bitirgen ýlken bala ýzdik nәtiyjemen Nazarbaev uniyversiyettine grantpen oqugha qabyldandy. Al kishisi liyseyding 4-synybyn bitirip, 5-synybyn oqityn jyly ýlken balam Germaniyagha oquyn auystyrdy. Qysqasy ol memleket jaghynan shetelde oqityn grantqa ie boldy.

– Balalardy oqytamyn dep jýrip Qytaygha qayta bara almay qalghan joqsyz ba?

– IYә, biz Qazaqstangha kelgennen keyin Qytaygha qayta ainalyp bara almay qaldyq, balalardyng sheshsi Qazaqstangha kelu kerek edi, ol da kele almay qaldy. Oghan bir qansha sebepter kedergi boldy. Alghashynda Qytayda jýrgizilgen sayasy reformanyng sebebinen shekara bekitilip, barys-kelis toqtap qalghan bolsa, arada 2019 jyly bir jylgha jeter, jetpes qayta ashylghanymen 2020 jylghy pandemiyagha (koronavirusqa) baylanysty qayta jabylyp qaldy.

– Otbasynyzdy bólip-jarmay birjolata kóshirip kelgende múnday jaghday bolmas pa edi?

– Jana aittym ghoy, balalarymnyng anasynyng Qytayda qalyp qoyghan sebebi, bizding kýn kórisimizding kózi bolghan sharua qojalyghyn jýrgizip qaldy dep. Búl júmysty ózim atqaryp, al júbayymdy balarmen birge Qazaqstangha jiberuge bolar edi, biraq búryn kórmegen, jalpy qoghamyn bilmegen elge jiberuge óz basym batyldyq ete almadym. Áyel adamnyng búl jaqqa kelgeninen ózi tuyp-ósken, ýirengen ólkesinde qalyp júmys istegen әlde qayda tiyimdi dep sanadym. Aynalasynda qol úshyn berip qaraylasyp túratyn әke-sheshesi, tuys-tughany, jaqyndary bar degendey. Sol sebepten de júbayym Kýnestegi sharua qojalyghyna ie bolyp, onyng shyrqyn búzbay jýrgizip otyr. Men qazir búl jaqta júmys istep jýrgen joqpyn, Qytaydan alatyn zeynetaqym men әielim qosymshalap jiberip túratyn azyn-aulaq qarajatpen ómir sýrip jatyrmyz.

Qazir Qytay men Qazaqstan arasyndaghy jaghday qayta jaqsardy, shekara ashyldy, kelip-ketuine mýmkindik tuylyp otyr. Alayda júbayymnyng tólqújatynyng merzimi bitip ketipti, alda tólqújatyn úzartyp jasatyp jatsa vizasyn ashtyryp Qazaqstangha kelip-qaytuyna bolady.

– Mýmkin qalyp qaluyna bolatyn shyghar?

– Áriyne, qaluyna bolady. Keyde oilaysyn, búl jaqqa kelse de isteuge tiyisti sharuamyz osy bolatyny anyq, odanda eki elding tiyimdi sayasatynan paydalana otyryp, sol jaqtaghy sharua qojalyghyn toqtatpay jýrgizip túrghan tiyimdi sekildi. Óitkeni, Qazaqstan azamattary shetelge ketip, júmys istep, tabys tauyp otbasyn asyrap jýrgen joq pa?! Sol sebepten de búl kәsibimizden qazirshe qol ýzgimiz kelmey túr. Sondyqtan bizding otbasymyzdan alandaytynday ýlken mәsele tuyndap otyrghan joq.

– Siz Qazaqstan azamattyghyn qay jyly aldynyz?

– Eki balammen birge Qazaq elining azamattyghyn 2018 jyly sәuir aiynda alghanbyz.

– Ýlken balam Germaniyagha oqugha týsti dediniz ghoy.

– Ýlken balanyng aituymen, ótinishimen mening kishi úlymdy Germaniyagha ertip baruyma tiyimdi oray boldy. Sol sebepti Astanadaghy bir bólmeli ýiimdi satyp bólinip-jarylmay Germaniyagha bardyq. Onda da batystaghy ozyq elderdi kórelik, onyng mәdeniyetimen tanysayyq degen oimen barghan jayymyz bar. Ýlken bala Berlindegi uniyversiytetting birine IT mamandyghy boyynsha oqugha týsti.

– Siz Qytayda úzaq jyl múghalim bolyp júmys jasapsyz, Qytay, Qazaqstan jәne Germaniya mektepterining oqytu baghdarlamasyn salystyryp kórdiniz be?

– Qytayda 25 jyl mektepte oqytushy bolu barysynda bayqaghanym, balalardyng oqu uaqytynyng kóbeyuine baylanysty bastauyshtan tolyqsyzgha, tolyqsyzdan tolyq ortagha ótu barysynda oqushylardyng oqudan mezi bolu, oqudan jalyghu, oqudan qashu sebepteri kóp boldy. Osynyng sebebin 25 jyl zerttesem de onyng jauabyn taba almadym. Sonymen birge bizding qoghamdaghy adamdar arasyndaghy qarym-qatynas barysyndaghy qalypsyzdyqtardyng sebepterin de taba almaushy edim.  

Men Astanada 4 jyl túryp balalarymdy oqyttym, osy barysta Qazaqstan mektepterining oqu-oqytu baghdarlamasyn shamamnyng jetken jerine deyin baqylap kórdim. Óziniz bilesiz, qazir Qazaqstanda memleket jәne jekemenshik iyeligindegi mektepter júmys jasaydy. Memleket iyeligindegi  mektepterding oqu sapasyna qaraghanda, jekemenshik mektepterding oqu sapasy birshama ilgeri. Memleket iyeligindegi mektepterde eki ausym, ýsh ausym, keyde tórt ausymgha deyin oqityn mektepter bar. Búl oqushylardyng bilim dengeyin tómendetpese, jogharylatpaytyny anyq. Al jekemenshik mektepterde ausym degen negizinen bolmaydy. Nesin jasyramyz, A.Aymaghambetov Oqu-aghartu minstri bolyp túrghan kezinde jýrgizgen reformanyng yqpalymen memleket iyeligindegi  mektepterding sapasy birshama jaqsarghanyn kórgen boldyq. Deytúrghanmen, jetersiz jaqtary әli de kóp. Men Germaniyagha baryp eki jyl túru barysynda, múnyng sheshimin tapqanday jәne týsingendey boldym.

Qazaq halqynda jaqslyqqa, óner, bilmge qatysty naqyl sózder men maqal-mәtelder kóp qoy. Adam jaqsy bolu kerek, tәrbiyeli bolu kerek, bilimdi bolu kerek, adamgershil bolu kerek, qoghamgha zalaly tiymeu kerek degen sekildi sózder ekining birinde aitylady. Al biz sóz etip otyrghan Germaniyada bala tughannan bastap, tipti anasynyng jatyryna bitkennen bastap ata-ana balanyng qamymen bolady. Mәsilen, bala dýniyege keluding aldynda әke men ana shynayy niyetimen, shyn jýregimen, shynayy meyirimmen, balany qalay dýniyege әkelu jónindegi ekeu ara talqysy bastalady.

– Mýmkin eki jas otbasyn qúrudan búryn osy әngimeni aitatyn shyghar?

– Óte dúrys aitasyz, eki jas sóz baylasqan kýnnen bastap olar búl mәseleni ortaq aqyldasady. Qazaqta jeti atagha deyin qyz alyspaytyn jaqsy әdet bar ghoy, al Germaniyada eki jas birin-biri ólip-óship sýiip túrsa da otbasyn qúrudyng aldynda medisinalyq tekseruden mindetti týrde ótedi. Eger qyz ben jigitting qan jaqyndyghy bayqalyp jatsa nemese qan jaqyndyghy bolmaghanymen, biraq sau deneli úrpaq әkeluine mýmkindigi bolmaytyny anyqtalyp jatsa olardyng bas qúrauyna zanmen tiym salady. Osy tekseruden aman-esen, aqausyz ótkender ghana balany qalay dýniyege әkelemiz, ony qalay baghyp-qaghamyz, qalay tәrbiyeleymiz degendi oilastyra bastaydy. Jana otau kótergen jastardyng alghashqy balasyn dýniyege әkelgenge deyin olardyng ata-anasy, tuys-tughany, jora-joldastary izdep barmaydy, sharuasyn aitpaydy, telefon soghyp mazalamaydy. Bir auyz sózben aitqanda olardyng mazasyn eshkim almauy kerek. Búl jalpy nemis halqynyng ortasynda qalyptasqan qarapayym dәstýr. Tek jaqyndary syrttay tileuin tilep jýretin bolady.

– Germaniya jastary qansha jasynda ýilenedi?

– Germaniya jastarynyng otbasyn qúraytyn ortaq jasy 29-30 jas. Búl jalpy Germaniya qoghamy men nemis halqynyng balany dýniyege әkelu, ony qalay tәrbiyeleu talabynan tuyndaghany anyq.

– Balabaqsha balany qansha jasynnan qabyldaydy?

– Eger ata-anasy erekshe jaghdayda júmysqa shyghuyna tura kelse balany ýsh ailyq kezinen bastap balabaqshagha beruine bolady. Qalypty jaghdayda balany 2-3 jasynda balabaqshagha aparady. Al balalar alty jasynda mektepke barady. Bala mektepke barghannan bastap ata-ana men mektep bolyp balany tәrbiyeleuge, bilim beruge jauapty bolady. Eki jaq óte kýshti baylanys ornatady. Otbasynda ata-ana balagha ne isteu kerek, mektepte múghalim ne isteu kerek degen sekildi mindet bólisi óte aiqyn bolady. Onyng súrauy bolady, onyng jauaby sózsiz berilui kerek. Óitkeni, bala 13 jasqa tolghangha deyin Germaniya memleketining zanynda ata-ana balagha qatang jauapty bolady dep jazylghan. Búl zannan eshkim jaltara almaydy, ol qatang atqarylady.

– Bizding elde ata-analar balasyn mektepke bergennen keyin bala tәrbiyeleudi múghalimge jýktep qoyatyny ótirik emes. Óitkeni, tirlikting qamymen jýrip balalarymen sóilesuge uaqyt tappay jýretin analar joq emes.

– Germaniyada ata-ana men mektep eng aldymen balanyng boyynda qanday erekshelik bar, bala nege qyzyghady, ne nәrsege әues, nege beyimi bar degendi týiin etip, bala 12-13 jasqa tolghangha deyin baqylaugha alady. Ata-ana bala otbasynda jýrgende, al múghalym bala oqugha kelgende zerttey bastaydy. Eki jaq dýrkin-dýrkin pikir almastyryp, ózderi sezgen, bayqaghan nәtiyjelerimen bólisip otyrady. Búl aralyqta balagha at ýsti qarau, aityp qoyyp mindetin atqarmau nemese jauabyn bermeu degen mýlde bolmaydy. Aytylady, aitylghan tapsyrmanyng bәri atqarylady. Mәselen, bala ýide bolghan kezde balany oinatady, qydyrtady, óz erkine jiberedi. Osy barysta balanyng oghash qylyqtaryn bayqap qalsa, balanyng mandayyn sipap, ata-analyq meyirimmen jaqsy men jamannyn, dúrys pen búrystyng ne ekenin, balanyng paryqtay biluine qatysty әngimeni jaylap aityp beredi. Balanyng sanasyna, jýregine, túla boyyna osylay aqyryndap sinire bastaydy. Qysqasy, balanyng is-әreketinde ne nәrse oghash bolyp túr, ne nәrse dúrys bolmay túr, ne nәrse qate bolyp túr, oghan ne nәrse kedergi jasap túr degen nәrselerdi aqyryn-aqyryn sindiredi, ne bolmasa sheshuge tyrysady.

– Sening mynauyng dúrys emes, bylay isteuge bolmady dep aighaylap úrsuyna bolmaydy deysiz ghoy?

– Olardyng zanynda balagha qabaq shytpaysyz, úrsu degen qiyalyna da kirmeydi. Mine, ata-ana men mektep osynday ortaq júmys atqara otyryp, bala 13 jasqa kelgenshe bir qortyndy shygharady. Búl qortyndy balanyng bolashaghyna jol ashady. Ómirindegi armanyna, qyzyqqan mamandyghyna qol jetkizuine alghashqy negiz qalaydy. Demek, bala endi kim bolyp jasaydy? Qanday kәsipti taldaydy? Qanday mamandyqty oquyna, ony mengeruge dayyndau kerek? degen súraqtargha jauap alyp, ony túraqtandyrady.

– Balalar mektep qúshaghynda jýrgen kezden bastap, keleshekte qanday mamandyq iyesi bolatynyn belgileytin boldy ghoy.  

– Áriyne, solay bolady. Balalar bastauyshty bitirip bolyp, tolyqsyzgha barghanda tórtke bólinedi. Birinshisi gimnaziyagha dep qabyldaydy, búl bilim, ghylym innovasiyasyna beyimdelgen ýzdik balalar. Búl oqushylardy memleket býkildey óz iyeligine, qamqorlyghyna alady. Al qalghan ýsh týrli oqushyny bala tabighatqa qyzygha ma, auylsharuashylyghyna qyzyghy ma, mal sharuashylyghyna qyzygha ma, әleumettik, qoghamdyq isterge qyzyghy ma nege qyzyghady sol sekildi jýzdegen mamandyqty jinap әkeledi de oqushylardyng qyzyghuyna, tandauyna qaray ýsh topqa bóledi. Olar janaghy gimnaziyanyng oqushylarynan paryqty bolady. Olar tolyqsyzdan bastap kәsiptik mandyqqa beyimdelip oqytyla bastaydy. Nazariyalyq (teoriyalyq) bilimge qosa mamandyqqa baylanysty praktikalyq bilim beriledi. Osy arqyly ózi tandaghan mamandyghy boyynsha kәsiptik kolledjlerge, joghary oqu oryndaryna týsip, ózining sýiikti mamandyghyn alyp shyghyp, qoghamdyq júmystargha aralasady.

– Qazaq aitady ghoy, «bala, balanyng istegeni shala» dep, sol aitpaqshyday germaniyalyq balalar qansha jerden tәrbie alsa da, olardyng da bir nәrseni býldirip qoyatyny bolatyn shyghar.

– Búl adamzatqa ortaq qasiyet qoy. Bala bolghan song balalyghy men isteytin shalalyghy bolady. IYә, nemis balalarynyng arasynda tәrtipsizdik jasaytyn, sabaq bilmeytin, til azarlar bolary sózsiz, ony joqqa shygharmaymyn. Degemenmen de, bizben salystyryp qaraghanda, olarda joqtyng qasy deuge bolady. Eger múnday balalar bolyp jatsa bólek tәrbiyeleydi, biraq olardyng adamdyq qasiyetinen kýmandanbaydy. Alayda densaulyghynda aqau bolyp, mýmkindigi shekteuli bolyp jatsa onyng jóni bólekteu. Olardyng kemshilikterin eskere otyryp jan-jaqtyly tәrbiyeleudi qolgha alady.

– Gimnaziyada oqyghan balalar men mektepte oqyghan balalar jalpy bettik memlekettik emtihangha qatysatyn shyghar?

–  Balalar tolyqsyzdan tolyq ortagha nemese liyseyge týsip oqu kerek qoy. Ony bitirgennen keyin janaghy gimnaziyada, liyseyde, mektepte oqyghany bar, jalpy bettik memlekettik emtihangha qatysady. Emtihannan alghan balynyng nәtiyjesine qaray ózining qalaghan oqu ornyna baryp oqugha týse alady. Endi búl jerde eskeretin taghy bir әngime bar. Balalar mektep bitirgennen keyin, bir ne eki jyl joghary oqu ornyna emtihan tapsyrmau qúqyghy bar. Men biyl emtihan tapsyrmaymyn, bir jyl dayyndalyp keler jyly tapsyramyn dese óz erki, oghan rúqsat etilgen.

Balalar mektep bitirip oqu oryndaryna qabyldanyp ketkennen keyin ata-anagha bir tiynda salmaq salynbaydy. Eger balanyng әke-sheshesi sol qalada bolsa, student balasy jataqhanagha jatpay ýiinde jatyp oqityn bolsa (jataq aqy, tamaq aqy, jol aqy) barlyq shyghyndy eseptep sol studentting ata-anasyna beredi.

– Germaniyada aqyly oqu degen bola ma?

– Eger bala emtihannan memleket belgilegen nómir shegine ilinbey qalsa, aqyly oqugha týsip oquyna nemese basqalay jol izdeuine bolady. Ne bolmasa bilimin jalghasty tolyqtyryp keler jyly qayta emtihan tapsyruyna bolady. Biraq bala ata-ananyng emes memleketting balasy bolyp ketedi.

– Jalpy mamandyq almaytyn bala bolmaytyn boldy ghoy.

– Bizding memleketpen, bizding qoghammen, ainalamyzdaghy kórshi eldermen salystyrghanda mening sheshe almay kelgen eki súraghym endi sheshildi. Mening 25 jyl boyy oqytushylyqpen shúghyldanghan kezdegi balalardyng oqyghan sayyn oqudan jalyghatyny, oqyghan sayyn oqyghysy kelmeytini, jalyghatyny men qoghamdaghy adamdar arasyndaghy orynsyz pikir talastardyng nemese qarym-qatynastyng nege dúrys bolmauy men sýiispenshilikting nege kemshin bolatyny endi dәleldendi.

Mәselen, balagha on segiz jyl boyy dúrys jol silteumen, onyng qyzyghuyna, qajetine qaray bilim berilip, tәlim-tәrbie óristetilgendikten olar qoghamgha shyqqannan keyin bir kәsipting basyn ústap shygha keledi. Olar búl mamandyqtan eshqashan jalyqpaydy, sebebi ol bala jastan búl mamandyqty ózi qalaghandyqtan, oghan bar yntasymen berilip isteydi. Jogharda aitqanymyzday gimnaziyada oqyghandar bilim, ghylym salasyn oqyp, ghylymy zertteu jaghyna ketse, qalghan ýsh toptaghylar ózderi sýigen týrli kәsipterin damytyp, óndirispen ainalysyp el iygiligine ýles qosady.

Qazaqstanda «sening balang qaysy joghary oqu ornyna týsti, qanday mamandyq aldy? Nemese qanday orynda istep jatyr, ailyghy qansha? degen sekildi salystyrmaly әngimeler jýrip jatady. Bala joghary órlep oqyr kezinde mamandyqty bala tandamaydy, ata-anasy tandaydy. Al Germaniyada mamandyqty balanyng ózi tandaydy. Ózi izdeydi, ózi qyzyqqan salasyna baratyn bolady. Sondyqtan kәsipsiz bala, oqudan zerigetin, oqudan qashatyn bala bolmaydy. Ol jaghy balanyng óz erkinde, bizdikiler siyaqty ata-analar óz oilaryn balalaryna zorlap tana almaydy. Sondyqtan sen tazalyqshy bolasyng ba, baghbanshy bolasyng ba, qúrlysshy bolasyng ba, ghalym bolasyng ba prakuror bolasyng ba, qanday mamandyq iyesi bolsanda eshkimning sende sharuasy joq. Sening balang anany istep jatyr eken ghoy, ana mamandyqty oqyp jatyr eken ghoy degen sekildi artyq sóz aitylmaydy.

– Maqtanu men kemsitu degen bolmaydy deysiz ghoy?

– Adamdy kemsitu, mamandyqty kemsitu, istep jatqan kәsipti kemsitu degen olarda bolmaydy. Eger siz qanday júmys isteseniz de sonyng kiymin (fomasyn) kiyip shyghasyz. Árqaysy júmystyng kiyim formasy bolady. Sol kiyiminizdi kiyip shyghugha mindettisiz jәne sol kiyimmen ýiinzge qaytyp kelesiz. Eger siz júmystan qaytqanda ýstinizden terding ne basqa jaghymsyz is shyghyp túrsa odan qysylmaysyz.  Óitkeni, Germanida avtobuzda, poyyzda, metroda, tahsiyde otyrsanyz da ýstinizden shyqqan bóten iyisten sizge jerkene qaraytyn adamdy tappaysyz. Bizdegi siyaqty sening ýsting sasyq eken, ary otyr dep múrnyn basatyndar bolmaydy nemese seskenip teris ainalmaydy. Qayta olar siz ýshin qyzmet istep, sizding tartynbay, jayly otyruynyzgha shart әzirleydi. Mine múnyng ózi balagha ata-ana men múghalimning iergen tәrbie men, bilim beruining jemisi. Búl bizge úqsamaytyn algha basar, ozyq qoghamnyng ýlken nәtiyjesi deuge bolady.

– Bәrinen búran adamdy alalamaytyny jaqsy eken?

– Olar biz sekildi rugha bólinbeydi, sen qay rusyn, qay jýzsing dep súramaydy. Tipti últqa, nәsilge bólinbeydi. Olar ýshin sen adam bolyp, adamzatqa paydandy tiygizseng bolghany. Jalpy ol jaqta adamzat ýshin qyzmet isteuge tәrbiyelenedi. Balany tәrbiyeleuding týpki maqsaty men nysanasy balanyng adamzat ýshin qyzmet isteuine ditteydi, soghan baulidy. Úly Abay aqynyng әr aitqan sózinen osynday mәn, maghana shyghyp otyrady ghoy. Abay adamannyng jan qúmarlyghy men tәn qúmarlyghyn basa aitady. Osy tәn qúmarlyghy men jan qúmarlyghyndaghy әngime ne degenge kelsek, Abay dýniyege adamnyng barlyghy birdey bolyp keledi, biraq qyzyghuy, qúmarlyghy úqsamaydy dep otyr. Al osyndaghy jan qúmarlyghy tyndasam, bilsem, ýirensem, jaratsam degen maqsatta bolady eken de, tәn qúmarlyghy ishsem, jesem, úiyqtasam, oinasam degen qúmarlyqta bolady eken. Múny Abay qazaqqa bir ghasyr búryn aityp ketken, ony bizding qazaq jaqsy biledi. Al nemister Abaydyng osy aitqanyna qalay jaqyndasyp otyr? Óitkeni, sen balandy dýniyege әkelgen kýnnen bastap, sәbiyding saghan qaraghanyna, kýlgenine, oinaghyna, jylaghanana, alghan tәrbesi men bilimine qaray bayqay bastaysyn, solay ghoy? Búl bala tәn qúmarlyghyna beyim be, әlde jan qúmarlyghyna beyim be degendi aqyryndap bile bastaysyn. Eger nemister balanyng tәn qúmarlyghyna beyim ekenin bayqay bastasa, ony  qatang ózgertuge tyrysady.

Jaqsy tәrbie kórgen, jaqsy ortada ósken bala qazir biz aityp otyrghan batystyng ozyq mәdeniyetine beyimdelip ketetine sózsiz. Búl tәrbie ýsh úrpaqtan aspaydy. Sondyqtan qazirge deyin men zerttegen mәselening negizgi sheshimin osylay tapqanday boldym.

Mәselen, birinshi bolyp men ózimdi ózgertuim kerek, odan keyin balamdy tәrbiyeleuim kerek, nemereme barghanda mening búl enbegimnen nәtiyje shyghyp Europa men batystyng ozyq mәdeniyetining qataryna jetetin bolady. Al búl jerde myna nәrseni esten shygharmauymyz kerek, bizding qazaq ekenimizdi, qazaq últy ekenimizdi úmytpauymyz kerek. Áuel deseng salt-sanamyzdy, ata dәstýrimizdi, moralimizdi, tilimizdi, dilimizdi, dinimizdi balanyng sanasyna birinshi orynda siniruimiz kerek. Sodan keyin baryp basqa mәdeniyetti órbituimiz kerek. Sondaghana bizding balamyz oidaghyday bala, tolyq adam bolyp shuyna kepildik jasay alamyz.

– Abaydyng kemel, tolyq adam degeni osy boldy ma?

– Bizding eldi basqa eldermen salystyrghanda Germaniyadaghy mәdeniyet, qoghamdyq orta, shart-jaghday óte ozyq dep aitugha bolady. Búryn batys elderine baryp kelgen adamdarmen jii әngimelesushi edim, Olardan, «batys elderine jetu ýshin bizge әli jýz jyl bar ghoy» degen sózderdi estiytinmin. Meninshe, olay aitugha bolmaydy, qazaqtyng sózimen aitqanda elu jylda el, jýz jylda qazan jana ghoy. Mening biraz eldi kórip týigenim, dәl qazirden bastap ata-analar ózderin tәrbiyelep, sanasyn ózgertse, odan keyin balasy ózgeretin bolady. Al nemeresi ata-әjesi, әke-sheshesi armandaghan maqsatqa qinalyssyz jetetin bolady.

– Biz aldymyzgha úzaq jyldy salyp alamyz bar. Qazir biz HHI ghasyrda nemese ozyq tehnologiya men IT zamanynda jasap jatyrmyz ghoy.  

–  Álemdegi ozyq tehlologiya men mәdeniyetti damyghan elder bizge aqparat berip otyr. Biz nege tosylyp otyrmyz, nege baylanyp otyrmyz, sebebi bizding qazaq rulyq dengeyden asa almay otyr. Artyq aitsam qazaghym keshirsin! Rurgha, jýzge bólindi dep bir-birimizdi synaugha, mineuge kelgende aldymyzgha jan salmaymyz. Shyn mәnine kelgende, biz rulyq dengeyden aspadyq, últtyq dengeyge kóterile almay kelemiz. Eger sen ruyndy tolyq túlghalyq jaqtan qalyptastyryp, ony algha qaray sýirep, últtyq dengeyge jetkize alsang dúrys bolar edi. Aldymen sen ruyndy biriktirip, últqa beyimdeseng onda sen myqtynyng myqtysy bolar edin. Biraq sorpa betine shyghar bilimdi, el aghasy degenderding ózi qarabasynyng qamyn kýittep, ózining ataq, abroyyn kóterumen әlek bolyp jýrgender bizde az emes.

– Bizde әrsalada jýrgen talantty jastardy, әsirese bilim, ghylym salasynda jýrgen jas ghalymdardy qoldau jetkiliksiz.     

–  Dúrys aityp otyrsyz, bizde bilim, ghylym jәne IT salasynda jana jetilip kele jatqan jas mamandar az emes, biraq osylardy qoldap, quattau, olardy jebeu, olardy dúrys týsinu, olardy dәripteu, júrtqa ýlgi etu jaghyndaghy kemshiligimiz óte kóp.

«Men 30 topta otyrmyn, men 40 topta otyrmyn» degen adamdardyng sózderin tyndaymyz. «Men bir kýnde ýsh jerge qonaq bolyp baryp-keldim, ana toygha, myna asqa bardym» dep auzyn toltyryp, iship-jegenimen maqtanatyndardy kóp kóremiz. Sen sol 30-40 toptyng ortasynda otyrghanda, bilim, ghylym jәne IT mamandyghy jóninde, ozyq mәdeniyet pen tehnoligiya turaly aityp kórding be, ózinde bolmasa da, ózgening jetistigin ortagha saldyng ba? Eger elding ishi-syrtynda bolyp jatqan bilimge, ghylymgha, ónerge qatysty bir auyz sóz aitsan, ertesi ekinshisi, odan keyin ýshinshisi aita bastar edi. Ósti, ósty onyng qatary kóbeyip, ozyq bilim, ghylym, mәdeniyet jaqtaghy izdenis aqyryndap barlyqqa kele bastaghan bolar edi. Búl ýrdis jalpy qoghamgha jalpylasyp býkil el bolyp órkeniyetti elderding qataryna qaray jýre bastar edi.

Búghan sen kirispesen, men kirispesem, ol kirispese, sol bayaghy  ózin dәripteumen, ózin kórsetumen, ór keudelikpen, takaparlyghyqmen qaydaghy men jaydaghyny aityp, sol bayaghy tәnning qúmarlyghynan úzap shygha almay jýremiz. Sen óte dúrys aityp otyrsyn, ol dúrys sóilepti, men múny ertennen bastayyn, sony qazir qoya túrshy, ol aldymyzda bolatyn is qoy. Ne bolmasa bala tәrbiyeleuding  mindetin mektep pen múghalimge audaryp, ne qoghamgha audara salyp, ózi oghan manaylaghysy kelmeytinder bar. Al ózing basqa jaqta kemenger, danyshpan bolyp, jogharydan tómen qarap qana núsqau berip otyrady. Bizding qoghamda osy isting ózgeruine, ne nәse kedergi keltirip túr degenge keletin bolsaq, qazir bizding qoghamda jalghan danyshpandar, aqylgóiler, belin auyrtpay oraq oratyndardyng shekten tys kóbeyip ketuinen bolyp otyr. Istelip jatqan júmysty olar kórmeydi, kórse de ony baghalap qoldau kórsetpeydi. Eger olar bireuding istep otyrghan enbegin kórip, onymen shynayy bәsekeleske týsip, ozyq nәtiyje jaratudyng ornyna, onyng ayaghynnan tartyp, mýmkin bolsa ony taptap, janshyp baryp ozudy ghana oilaydy. Dayyn asqa tik qasyq saludy maqsat etedi.

Býgingisin oilaghanymen ertengi kýnin oilaytyndar az. Keybireuler «Erteng jeytin qúiryqtan, býgin jeytin ókpem artyq» degen qazaqta joq maqal jasap alypty. Oilanyzshy, bireu oghan erteng qúiryq jeuding jolyn kórsetip túrsa, al ol býgin ókpe jeuge dәmetedi. Ertenin oilamaghan adamdardan bolashaq turaly ýmit qaydan payda bolsyn. Sondyqtan ertenimiz ýshin dәl qazirden bastaytyn iydeyamen men tabandylyq bolsa armandaghan maqsatqa kóp keshikpey jetetin bolamyz. Onyng auyly alys emes dep oilaymyn.

– Jalpy nemis halqy baqytty halyq boldy ghoy.

– Bizding qazaq ómirbaqy baqytty bolu turaly tilek aitady nemese qúdaydan súranumen bolady. Bylaysha aitqanda, baqytty bolugha zәru halyq ekenimizdi ylghy bildirip kelemiz. Al Germaniya halqy baqytpen júmysy joq, baqytty bilmeydi. Sebebi, jogharyda aitqanymyzday әrbiri ózi qalaghan mamandyqty oqyp, ózi sýigen kәsippen (júmys istep) ainalysyp sodan lәzzat alady, sodan baqyt tabady. Olar denining sau bolyp, júmysyn alansyz istep, eli ýshin qyzmet etip, otbasyn asyraghanyn baqyt sanaydy. Qarap otyrsan, olardyng býkil ómiri baqytqa bólenip, baqytty ótip jatqanday seziledi.

Osy jerde myna nәrseni qosa keteyin, biz balagha da, ata-anagha da jýk artyp qoyady ekenbiz. Osy jýk ómirboyy jalghasyn tauyp úrpaqtan úrpaqqa múra bolyp qalady. Mәselen, ata-ana balany tapqannan keyin ony asyrap, oqytu, qyz bolsa úzatyp qútty ornyna qondyru, úl bolsa kelin alyp otau túrghyzu... Nemere baghu men jiyenderge qaraylasu degen sekildi... Al olardyng balalary on segizge tolghanan keyin bitti olar memleketting iyeligine ótip ketedi de, mamandyq alghanan keyin iyólden bastap kәsibin bastap, júmysyn istep kete beredi. Osy kezden bastap ata-ananyng moynyndaghy balagha qatysty mәsele ayaqtalady. Biraq ata-ana, tuys-tughan, bala arasyndaghy sýiispenshilik, qarym-qatynas, baylanys eshqashan ýzilmeydi. Olar óz sharuasymen, balalar óz sharuasymen ainalysa beredi.

–  Germaniyada ortasha jalaqy qansha eken?

– Ortasha jalaqy, eng az degende 2000-3000 euro bolady.

– Júmystan qysqartylyp nemese júmys tappay jýrgender joq boldy ghoy?

– Júmyssyz jýrgender mýlde bolmaydy. Olardyng júmyssyz qalmaytyn sebebi, orta, shaghyn kәsip oryndar memleketting 90 payyzyn iyeleydi. Onyng ýstine әrbir jeke túlgha mamandyghy boyynsha ózi kәsip ashuyna nemese kәsip oryn qúryp óndirispen ainalysuyna mýmkindik mol. Olargha memleket qoldau kórsetip otyrady. Sondyqtan olar aspangha qarap júldyz sanap nemese jerge qarap jer syzyp otyrmaydy, biylikke alaqan jaymaydy, maghan qarmaq ber balyq ústaymyn demeydi. Bizidikiler sekildi ertengi kýning jaqsy bolady degen syldyr sózge, jalghan esepke aldanbaydy. Qashan oquyn bitirip shyghady ózining kәsibin sol kýni nólden bastaydy da, ómirining sonyna deyin jalghastyrady beredi.

– Zeynetkerlikke qansha jasta shyghady eken?

– Germaniyada zeynetkerlik, zeynetaqy turaly әngime kóp aityla bermeydi. Densaulyghyng jar berip, kýsh-quatyng artyp túrsa ary qaray da júmys istey beruine bolady. Zeynet jasy sol alpystyng ainalysynda. Germaniyada jastargha qaraghanda jasy ýlkenderdi júmysqa kóbirek tartady. Óitkeni ómir kórgen, tәjiriybesi mol, júmysqa degen senimi men tabandylyghy basym dep sanaydy.

– Nemisterde qyz úzatu men kelin týsiru toyy qalay ótedi eken?

– Olardyng da toy-tomalaghy, bas qosyp kónil kóteretin kýnderi bolady. Memleket belgilegen meyramdary da bar. Olardyng merekelik sharalary óte kónildi, kýshti ótedi. Býkil qauym, әleumet bolyp dabyraly toylaydy. Al jayshylyqta әke-sheshe, bala-shaghy, tuys-tughan, qúda-jekjattarymen toy-tomalaghyn ótkizedi, sharualaryn birge tyndyrady. Biraq adam sany az bolady, kólemi ýlken bolmaydy. Bizding qazaq sekildi pәlen jýz adamdy shaqyryp aspa-tók toy jasaghandaryn kórmedim. Ýilenu toyy «Bal aiyn» ótkizu negizinde ótedi.

– Nemis telearnalarynda baghdarlamalar qalay jýredi eken?

– Bizding memlekettik arnalardy ashyp qalsanyz (memlekettik arnasy bar, jekemenshik arnasy bar) barlyghy әnshi, әrtis, sayqymazaq jәne shou biznester kógildir ekrandy jaulap alghan ghoy. Al Germaniyada múnday baghdarlamalar memlekttik arnalarda mýldem berilmeydi. Al jekemenshik arnalarda anda-sanda berilip qalady, biraq ony elep, ekshep, súryptap, synaqtan ótkizip qoghamgha keri yqpal jasamaytyn, keri әser bermeytin, dúrys baghyt, baghdar bere alatyn baghdarlamalardy ghana beredi.

– Bizding telearnalardaghyday qoghamdyq, әleumettik mәseleler kóterilmey me?

– Onday baghdarlama joqtyng qasy. Sebebi, bizding eldegidey sheshilmey jatqan halyqtyng әleumettik, ekonomikalyq mәsele olarda joq, bola qalghan kýnning ózinde jergilikti әkimshilik ony yn-dynsyz sheship otyrady. Óitkeni, Germaniya halqynyng әleumettik mәselesi sheshilgen. Zangha qayshy әreketke baru, qylmys isteu degendi olar negizinen bilmeydi. Búl elde zannyng barlyq adamdar ýshin qaltqysyz, birdey qyzmet istegeninen bolyp otyr. Sondyqtan da Germaniyada adamdardyng qúqyghy taptala bermeydi.

– Baspana mәselesi sheshilgen be?

–  Germaniya halqynyng 70 payyzynda jeke baspana bolmaydy. Sebibi, júmys qajetine qaray qyzmetin jii auystyryp otyrady, qaladan qalagha ketedi degendey. Sondyqtan olar ýy jaldap otyrghandy qolayly sanaydy. Biz Berlin qalasynan bir bólmeli ýidi 400 eurogha bir-eki ay jaldap túrdyq, keyin Gamburg qalasyna baryp bir bólmeli ýidi elge qaytqansha 250 eurogha jaldap túrdyq. Ár qalada pәter aqysy әrtýrli bolady.

Osy arada taghy bir aita keter nәrse, Europa halqy turizmmen el aralap qydyrghandy jaqsy kóredi, olar tapqan tabysynyng bir bóligin demalugha júmsaydy. Óitkeni, qydru arqyly midy, jýrekti, jalpy deneni demaldyryp qaytqandy jaqsy kóredi.     

– Sonda da últshylyghy qozyp, syrttan kelgenderdi kemsitetinder bolatyn shyghar?

–  Siz aitqanday zangha qayshylyq jasap, kemsitip sóileytin azyn-aulaq ister bolyp qalady. Olarda adam, pende bolghannan keyin olardyng ishinde  búrynghy eski kózqarastaghy keybir adamdar joq emes, bar. Onyng bәrin biz dúrys týsinuimiz kerek. Bizge qajeti olardyng nashar әdeti emes, artyqshylyghy bolghandyqtan men ylghy jaqsylyq jaghyn aityp otyrmyn. Janaghyday biz saqtanatyn nashar jaghy da bar. Qazaqtar sekildi aq kónildik tanytyp, qonaq jaylylyq kórsetu olarda joq. Salmaqty, bir togha keledi. Al júmys jaghynan saghan kómektesu, qol úshyn beruge kelgende aldyna jan salmaydy. Jolda qalyp qalsanyz nemese jayau kele jatyp qalypsyzdyq kórsetseniz, kez kelgen adam kelip, «sizge ne jaghday boldy, ne dúrys bolmay túr» dep sizden súraydy. Kómek kerek bolsa kómegin ayamaydy, biraq jayshylyqta sizge jalpandap, eljirep ketpeydi. Búl jaghynda ózin ústaghan salmaqty minezderi bar. Siz basqa tilde sóilep túrsanyz, olardyng arasynda nemis tilin tyqpalap, kýshenkirep túratyn patriottar da kezdesedi. Memleket tili nesmis tili ghoy. Birinshi orynda nemis tili túrady, odan song aghylshyn tilin paydalanady. Orys tili de ara-túra qoldanysta bolady.

–  Shyny kerek, bizding poliyselerden halyq qorqady ghoy, olardyng poliyseleri qanday eken?

– Polisiyanyng ózi saghan ýlken jәrdem berip, qolqabys tiygizedi. Seni kelip tekserip, kim ekenindi bilmek bolyp túrsa da aldymen sening aman-esendigindi, den saulyghyndy súraydy. Jaghdayyndy súraydy, odan song ary qaray júmys jasalady. Eger zangha qayshylyq jasap jatpasan, sening úsaq-týiek nәrselerindi elep-eskerip jatpaydy.

Odan keyin týngi on jarymnan, tanghy altygha deyingi uaqytta týn tynyshtyqqa enedi. Jýrgen kólik, dýrildegen mator, aighay-shu degen mýlde bolmaydy. Dýkender men sauda ortalyqtary týgel jabylady. Júmyskerler senbi, jeksenbi kýni mindetti týrde demalatyn bolady. Eger senbi, jeksenbi kýnderi jeytin azyq-týlikti alyp almasanyz ash qalyp qaluynyz әden mýmkin. Tek qana may qúy beketterinde ghana azyq-týlik satylady, sol jerden alasyz.

– Jedel jәrdem men qúqyq qorghaushylardyng kóligi jýretin shyghar.

–   Onday tótenshe jaghdaylargha rúqsat berilgen.

– Bankten nesie alyp, ony ótey almay jýrgender bola ma?

– Nesie alatyn dar bar, bizding bank sekildi ósimi joghary emes. Bankten nesiyeni 0.4 payyzben alady. Pandemiyadan keyin nesie 4 payyzgha kóterilip ketitken edi, halyq narazy bolyp kóshege shyqqan bolatyn. Bankting qaryzyn qaytara almay jýrgen adamdy kórmeysiz, qayta kәsibin dóngeletip, payda tauyp jýrgen eldi kóresiz.

Al jeke túlghar arasynda qaryz beru, qaryz alu degen mýlde bolmaydy. Ólip bara jatsa da bireuden qaryz súramaydy jәne bireuge qaryz bermeydi. Eger  bir tanysy oqystan tabighy apatqa úshyrap jatsa, onyng jaqyndary, tuys-tughandary kelip qaytarymsyz kómek berip, mәngi almastay bolyp qaytady. Mine osynday kómekter jasalady.

Al endi nemis halqynyng jalpy qoghamdyq salty, moraly biz qabyldaugha tiyisti jaqtarynan birazyn aitayyn. Árqanday zandy túlgha men jeke túlgha eng aldymen salyq tóleudi maqtanysh kóredi. Nemese ony abroy sanaydy. Bir kýnin, bir tiynyn kemitpey tóleydi, uaghynda tapsyrady. Sebebi, býkil memleket pen halyq salyqtyng ortaq iygiligin kóredi dep esepteydi. Sondyqtan salyqtan jaltyratyn nemese uaghynda tólemeytin zandy jәne jeke túlgha bolmaydy. Múny әrbir adam sanaly týrde, shynayy niyetimen tapsyrady. Salyqtan jaltarudy olar eng jiyirkenishti is sanaydy.

Múnymen qatar kәsiporyndarda istegen kezinde segiz saghattyq júmys isteydi. Eger segiz saghattyq júmystan qalghan júmys bolsa sizge ótinish bildiredi. Bir saghat, ne 2-3 saghat uaqtynyz bolsa óz erkinizben isteuge bolady. Eger búl júmysty isteseniz eki eselengen aqyny qolma-qol tóleydi, әri kәsiporyn basshylyghy sizge raqmetin aitady. Eger 2-3 saghattyq júmys istep bolghan song sizge qojayyn aqynyzdy bermese, jarty saghattan keyin sotqa aryz beruinizge bolady.

–  Sot birden sheshim shygharyp bere me?

– Germaniyada barlyq adam zangha baghynady. Sot tәuelsiz, derbes, óte әdil bolady. Eger siz bireumen kelispey qalyp, sotqa barmay sol adammen mynany bylay kelisip sheshsek qaytedi deseniz ol adam, «sen nege sotqa barmaysyn» dep renjiydi. Al sot bizdiki sekildi ezip, qyrtyp, saghattan saghatqa, aidan aigha, jyldan jylgha sýirelemeydi, júmysyndy sol sәtte sheship beredi. Germaniyada 95 payyz adam sotqa jýginedi jәne sotqa riza bolady. Sol sebepti adamdar kóshedi, qoghamdyq ortada jýrgende alandamaydy, olarda qorqu degen bolmaydy. Mәselen, bir nәrseni abaysyzda býldirip alu, shaghyp alu, bir isti qate istep qoydan qoryqpaydy. Nege deseniz, zang әdil sheshimin shygharyp, qúqyghyn zanmen rettep beredi.

– Kýndelikti qoqyr-qoqsyqty tastau mәdeniyeti qanday?

– Qoqyr-qoqsyqtyng ózin bes týrge bólip tastaydy. Mәselen, kógenis qaldyqtaryn, qaghaz ben qorap, temir, pylasiyk, salapan, aghash matrialdary degen sekildi. Eger búl jerdegidey aralastyryp tastasanyz aippúl tólysiz. Eger shetelden kelip bilmey tastasanyz bir ret eskertu beredi (onda da jolynyz bolghan jaghdayda), bolmasa aippúldy ayamay salady. Halqy búghan ýirengen, búl olar ýshin qalypty tirlikke ainalghan.

– Azyq-týlik baghasy qanday? 

– Azyq-týlik Qazaqstanmen salystyrghanda eki ese qymbat. Bir nan qazaqtyng tengesimen eseptegende 500 tengedey túraly. Biraq búl bagha olar ýshin qalypty bagha esepteledi.

– Koghamdyq kólikterding jolaqysy qansha?

– Mәselen, 2-3 saghat jýretin jerge on euro júmsalady.

– Ishkilik jaghy qanday eken?

– Ishimdik iship mas bolyp, búlghaqtap jýrgen adam kórmeysiz. Nemis halqy syrany jaqsy kóredi. Ár jyly qyrkýiekting songhy aptasynda «syra merekesi» bolady. Germaniyada syranyng 5 mynnan artyq týri bar. Biraq syra ishu óresi men mәdeniyeti óte joghary bolady. Zangha qayshy әreketterdi boldyrmaydy jәne boldyrudy bilmeydi.

Al endi shújyqtyng mynnan asa týri bar. Nemis halqy shújyqty (kolbasany) jaqsy kóredi, al nannyng ýsh jýzden asa týri bar. Olar jylqy etin de jaqsy jeydi. 150 euroynyz bolsa bir ailyq túrmys qarajatynyzdy qamday alasyz.

– Kýndelikti tamaqty ózderiniz jasap ishtinizder me?

– Ózimiz jasap ishtik, kósheden ishken kýnderimizde boldy. Ondaghy azyq-týlik dýkenderinde nemese sauda ortalyqtarynda azyq-týlikting 20 payy músylmandargha arnalghan. Azyq-týlik jaghynda biz qiynshylyq kórgen joqpyz.

– Siz nemistermen qay tilde sóilestiniz?

– Men til mәselesine kelgende aldymen balalargha sýiendim, ondaghy kóp júmysty bitiretinder balalar boldy. Internetting damuy bizding til mәselemizdi sheship qoyghan. Myna qalta telefonda dýniyejýzindegi eki jýzden astam últtyng tili kirgizilgen. Sizding sóilegen sózinizdi nemis tilining tetigine aparyp basyp qalsanyz nemiz tilinde zarlap shygha keledi. Al nemisting sóilegen sózin qazaq tiline audaryp tetigin basyp jiberseniz qazaqsha audaryp beredi. Osynday qalta telefonynyz bolsa, әlemning eki jýzden astam eline qinalyssyz aralap keluinizge bolady.

– Ýlken balanyz nemis tilin jaqsy bile me?

– Ol búl jaqtan aghylshyn, orys tilin ýirenip barghan. Joghary oqu oryndarynda aghylshyn, nemis tili negiz bolady. Germaniyagha barghan song nemis tilin jyldam ýirenip aldy.

– Ýlken balanyz Berliyinde qalyp, siz kishi úlynyzben elge qaytyp keldiniz be?

– Ýlken úl eki jyl Berlinde oqyghan son, IT mamandyghyn ary qaray jalghastyru ýshin Kanadagha oqu auystyryp ketti. Kanada bir jyl oqyghanan keyin, qoghamgha shyghyp qyzmetin isteytin bolady.

– Sonda búl mamandyqty qansha jyl oqidy?

– Qazaqstanda oqyghan bir jyldy, Germaniyada oqyghan eki jyldy, al endi Kanada oqityn bir jyldy qossanyz búl mamandyqty tórt jyl oqyghan bolady.

– Siz Kanadagha barmadynyz ba?

– Kanadagha barmadyq. Ýlken úldy Kanadagha attandyryp jiberip, kishi úlmen birge elge qayttym.

–  Kishi úlynyzdyng mektepte oquy qalay bolyp jatyr?

– Kishi úlym Qanat biyl 13 jasqa toldy. Germaniyada eki jyl túru barysynda, múnyng ary qaray oqityn kәsiptik mamandyghyn túraqtandyrdyq.

– Germaniyagha barghannan keyin Qanat oquyn qalay jalghastyrdy?

– Germaniyanyng Baltyq tenizi jaghasyndaghy Gamburg degen port qalasynda Qanat sekildi әr jaqtan barghan balalargha Germaniya ýkimetining mәn berui, qamqorlyghynyng arqasynda segiz balalyq bir synyp ashylyp, orys jәne aghylshyn tilinde sabaq tyndady. Ózi oqyghan Astanadaghy liyseyden onlayyn sabaq tyndap otyrdy. Sol arqyly әr jylghy toqsandyq nәtiyjeleri búl jaqta qattalyp jatty.

– Qazir Astanada emes, Almatyda túryp jatyrsyz. Aldymyzdaghy qyrkýiek aiynda mektepter  júmysyn bastaydy. Qanatty qayda oqytpaqshysyz?

– Germaniyadan kelgenimizge bir aidan asty. Qazir Almatyda túryp jatyrmyz. Búryn tórt jyl Astanada túrdyq, endi Almatyda túramyz dep sheshtik. Qanat balam endi Almaty qalasyndaghy Ayatjan Ahmetjan basqaratyn QAZBILIM últtyq liyseyining 7-synybynan bastap oqityn bolady.

– Búl balanyng anasymen endi Almatyda kezdesu orayy bolatyn shyghar?

– Osydan bir ay búryn Qorghas shekarasyndaghy MSPS bazaryna Kýnesten balalardyng sheshesi keldi, Almatydan biz baryp kezdestik. Soda eki kýndey boldyq, alty jyldan beri kezdespegen, aitylmaghan әngimeler aityldy. Anasy Qanatty bauyryna basyp, bireui analyq meyirimmen, bireui balalyq meyrimmen mauqyn basty. Osy barysta kóptegen mәsellerdi sheship, men jalghasty balalardy tәrbiyeleu, oqytu júmysyna jauapty boldym. Al ol jaqtaghy sharua qojalyghyna qatysty júmystardy jalghasty jýrgizuge jauapty bolyp, jaghday jaqsaryp shekara ashylsa men baryp-keletin, ol kelip-qaytatyn bolyp qayttyq.

Súhbatty jýrgizgen Álimjan Áshimúly

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